Episode 62
Brad & Steve Is Gen Z a Problem
The Myth of Unmanageable Gen Z Employees
Why does the majority of management label Gen Z as the most challenging generation to work with?
We are not buying into the buzz that Gen Z is the toughest generation to manage in the workplace. We passionately challenge a Resume Builder article that claims an astonishing 74-75% of managers find Gen Z the most difficult generation to manage.
Are they truly lacking skills and motivation, or are we just witnessing a clash of outdated workplace norms with the Gen Z way of thinking?
Could it be that it's not Gen Z that needs to conform but rather the traditional workplace needs to adapt to the Gen Z way of thinking?
Join us as we question the status quo of workplace expectations and efficiency. We discuss how this generation's distinct structure might impact their adaptability in the workforce.
Spoiler alert: we firmly believe that expectations should be result-oriented, and businesses could greatly benefit from embracing this paradigm shift. So, tune in for an interesting conversation about bridging the generational gap in the workplace. Get ready to rethink your stance on Gen Z's place in the workforce.
Highlights:
- 2:20- Brad and Steve point out some issues with an article from Resumebuilder.com about how GenZ is perceived by older generations.
- Discussing how part of the issue is how leadership is not setting expectations from the start.
- 4:49 - Discussion of the differences in how GenZ was raised and how it’s affecting the perceptions in the workplace.
- 8:50 - Discussion of how GenZ might need to work on adaptability.
Steve Doyle:
Brad Herda:
This podcast uses the following third-party services for analysis:
OP3 - https://op3.dev/privacy
Transcript
[Brad Herda]: Welcome back to another episode
of Blue Coward BS with Brad and Steve. How
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::[Brad Herda]: are you today, Mr. Doyle?
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::[Steve Doyle]: Doing good, Mr. Herder. How you
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::[Brad Herda]: I
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::[Steve Doyle]: doing?
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::[Brad Herda]: am absolutely fantastic. What
do we got for today's topic?
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::[Steve Doyle]: So today's topic is actually
an article found on Resume Builder where the
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::[Steve Doyle]: topic is all around that three
and four managers find it difficult to work
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::[Steve Doyle]: with Gen Z.
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::[Brad Herda]: Cool. Here's the thing that I,
so we're a little pretense for our listeners
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::[Brad Herda]: here, right? Obviously, we have
a bias towards Gen Z for
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::[Steve Doyle]: Just a little.
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::[Brad Herda]: our opportunities. The thing that
doesn't come out in this survey is what generations
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::[Brad Herda]: the managers are from to understand
where those differences are coming from. So
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::[Brad Herda]: they do have 1,344 respondents
along the way. So what did you find most interesting
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::[Brad Herda]: about this article?
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::[Steve Doyle]: So honestly, going through the
article, more shocking to me is just how just
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::[Steve Doyle]: the flat 74, 75% of managers
just flat out, they say Gen Z is the most challenging
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::[Steve Doyle]: generation to work with. And
if we peel back that a little bit more to why
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::[Steve Doyle]: they believe that's, why so many
believe that. It's really interesting when
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::[Steve Doyle]: we dig down into the numbers,
right? It's they find that they lack technological
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::[Steve Doyle]: skills. Find that very
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::[Brad Herda]: Difficult.
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::[Steve Doyle]: interesting.
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::[Brad Herda]: I find that very difficult to
believe, whether it's technological skills
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::[Brad Herda]: or application of knowledge.
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::[Steve Doyle]: Right, right. You know, and you
keep diving down into it, and this may or may
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::[Steve Doyle]: not be true, but find this interesting
where 37% think it comes down to effort or
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::[Steve Doyle]: the lack of effort because that
they provide. And then along that motivation.
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::[Steve Doyle]: So effort and motivation are
tied right up there. So very interesting how
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::[Steve Doyle]: this survey pins Gen Z.
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::[Brad Herda]: Right. And when I read through
it, my first thing was, did you set the expectations?
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::[Steve Doyle]: What do you mean by
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::[Brad Herda]: Right,
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::[Steve Doyle]: that?
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::[Brad Herda]: because we both know
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::[Steve Doyle]: Thank you.
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::[Brad Herda]: and have witnessed that the efficiency
that Gen Z is bringing into the workplace is
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::[Brad Herda]: very different, right? They're
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::[Steve Doyle]: Absolutely.
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::[Brad Herda]: not gonna come in and say, hey,
I've got 45 minutes worth of work, but I need
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::[Brad Herda]: to be here today for eight hours.
They're gonna come in with the
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::[Steve Doyle]: Mm-hmm.
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::[Brad Herda]: 45 minutes of work and then go,
okay, what's next? Because if I...
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::[Steve Doyle]: Absolutely.
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::[Brad Herda]: If I don't have anything to do,
why am I here? If you're willing to pay me
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::[Brad Herda]: 8 hours or 45 minutes worth of
work just to be in this office or in this job
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::[Brad Herda]: site or wherever, why wouldn't
you be willing to pay me 45 minutes to get
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::[Brad Herda]: the work done for that same value
and then I'm going to get
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::[Steve Doyle]: Mm-hmm.
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::[Brad Herda]: the hell out. If you're going
to pay me $100 a day for 45 minutes, then just
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::[Brad Herda]: pay me for the $100 for the 45
minutes and I'm going to leave. I'm all good,
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::[Brad Herda]: man.
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::[Steve Doyle]: Right, right. See, and as you
read through this survey, it continues to get
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::[Steve Doyle]: a little more, I would say challenging
too, is because management has identified it
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::[Steve Doyle]: as they believe Gen Z lacks discipline
and they quote unquote consistently challenge
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::[Steve Doyle]: you. Why would they be challenging
you? Let's just call it space A. Why are they
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::[Steve Doyle]: challenging you? Right? It's
because you didn't set expectations in the
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::[Steve Doyle]: front, right at the beginning.
We were all dumbasses and said, yeah, I need
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::[Steve Doyle]: you to do this and didn't tell
them why, didn't set the expectation of what,
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::[Steve Doyle]: when it needed to be done by,
you know, the ins and outs of it, it's just
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::[Steve Doyle]: we had the expectation, this
stuff just needs to get done. I don't care
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::[Steve Doyle]: how it gets done. And then when
it gets done, you get all pissed off because
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::[Steve Doyle]: it got done and you expect them
to sit there on their ass for the rest of the
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::[Steve Doyle]: day. Really?
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::[Brad Herda]: Right. And part of that is, right,
the lack of drive one that I find very interesting,
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::[Brad Herda]: their motivation. Was there a
drive one in here somewhere? Yeah, lack of
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::[Brad Herda]: drive at 29%. Okay. The older
Gen Z, that 26 to 22 year old range probably
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::[Brad Herda]: has a little bit more wisdom and
understanding that you gotta do things in the
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::[Brad Herda]: workforce differently. But you
get to that younger side, their lives have
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::[Brad Herda]: been completely scheduled. since
they were five years old.
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::[Steve Doyle]: Yeah.
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::[Brad Herda]: They've told what
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::[Steve Doyle]: Mm-hmm.
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::[Brad Herda]: to do, where to be, how to do
it since they were five years old. You're going
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::[Brad Herda]: to go.
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::[Steve Doyle]: Yeah, way to go, Renax parents.
You really screwed him up.
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::[Brad Herda]: Hey, hey,
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::[Steve Doyle]: Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
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::[Brad Herda]: hey, hey, my two kids are very
productive members of society. All I gotta
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::[Steve Doyle]: I'm
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::[Brad Herda]: say,
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::[Steve Doyle]: going
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::[Brad Herda]: they
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::[Steve Doyle]: to go
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::[Brad Herda]: are,
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::[Steve Doyle]: to bed.
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::[Brad Herda]: they are out there. They're thriving.
They're doing well, receiving promotions.
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::[Steve Doyle]: Hehehe
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::[Brad Herda]: They're doing all the things that
are, that are out there. So I think I've done
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::[Brad Herda]: my job to, to
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::[Steve Doyle]: You have done your job.
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::[Brad Herda]: support that workforce out there
to put good people out there.
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::[Brad Herda]: dip.
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::[Steve Doyle]: Yep, you have. Didn't mean to
take it
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::[Brad Herda]: Thank
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::[Steve Doyle]: personally,
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::[Brad Herda]: you. Bye.
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::[Steve Doyle]: but that's alright.
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::[Brad Herda]: says the millennial.
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::[Steve Doyle]: Oh, we just had to add that in
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::[Brad Herda]: Yep,
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::[Steve Doyle]: there.
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::[Brad Herda]: I did.
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::[Steve Doyle]: So what else is interesting in
this article?
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::[Brad Herda]: Well, it's just mind boggling
to me. Um, the other part I found very interesting
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::[Brad Herda]: was, you know, one and eight have
fired a Gen Z or within a week of their start
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::[Brad Herda]: date.
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::[Steve Doyle]: Hehehe
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::[Brad Herda]: Okay, higher slow, fire fast.
I get it.
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::[Steve Doyle]: Yep.
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::[Brad Herda]: without having a lot of the information
behind this resume builder survey, I find this
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::[Brad Herda]: almost very news-like that it's
been taken. There's context here, there's data
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::[Brad Herda]: here, and we're gonna skew. Statistics,
we can make it say whatever we want. I
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::[Steve Doyle]: Correct.
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::[Brad Herda]: think there's some other stories
behind here that don't necessarily get here,
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::[Brad Herda]: because we've got this click bait
scenario of one in eight fired agenzie are
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::[Brad Herda]: within a week of their start.
Okay, cool. Um, does that mean that you fired
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::[Brad Herda]: them because they didn't do the
job? They didn't show up. They, uh, they actually
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::[Brad Herda]: decided that you're an ass and
I decided, and I'm not going to work here because
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::[Brad Herda]: they're not going to put up with
it as much as other generations that put up
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::[Brad Herda]: with poor leaders in the past,
um, because they are challenging you because
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::[Brad Herda]: they are saying, why are we doing
it this way? Why can't I do it this way?
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::[Steve Doyle]: Mm-hmm.
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::[Brad Herda]: Why do I have to be here all day?
Is that why they're getting fired? Cause they're
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::[Brad Herda]: being disobedient.
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::[Steve Doyle]: Right.
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::[Brad Herda]: There's just a lot of things here
that I...
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::[Brad Herda]: you know, 65% say they're more
commonly, they are more commonly, they more
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::[Brad Herda]: commonly need to fire Gen Zers
than employees from other generations. Really.
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::[Steve Doyle]: That's, I mean, that just sounds
like poor hiring management right there.
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::[Brad Herda]: So Harry, who's been with the
company for 40 years, who dogs it every day,
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::[Brad Herda]: but gets the work right. He's
got two hours of work, but makes it work every
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::[Brad Herda]: day and makes it look like he's
working hard. I'm paying him an Atlantis wage.
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::[Brad Herda]: And then Aaron, the new Genzir,
comes in, does the same thing, doesn't have
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::[Brad Herda]: 40 years. Does that help me? just
help me understand some of the different.
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::[Steve Doyle]: Yeah, absolutely. But we don't
give them that grace. But we also, now there
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::[Steve Doyle]: is one thing that I, I would
generally say probably happens more often than
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::[Steve Doyle]: not in this is on the Gen Z side,
I do agree with that there is a lack of adaptability
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::[Steve Doyle]: on their part. Being able to
adapt. to a world that is consistently changing.
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::[Steve Doyle]: The only thing consistent is
change and it happens every single day. And
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::[Steve Doyle]: when lives are so structured,
things are so you are told something and it's
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::[Steve Doyle]: expected that it's delivered,
but then a minute later it changes, that generation,
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::[Steve Doyle]: I genuinely believe struggles
with that. So I think it is important that
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::[Steve Doyle]: Gen Zs understand that they need
to be more flexible and open to change. And
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::[Steve Doyle]: that really comes down to being
in environments that will help them understand
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::[Steve Doyle]: that. But you have to have a
great mentor and a great boss or management
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::[Steve Doyle]: that will help you understand
that because they haven't grown up with that
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::[Steve Doyle]: at all.
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::[Brad Herda]: And set, like we're talking about
earlier, set the expectation. If the expectation
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::[Brad Herda]: is, and the expectations need
to be results focused, and this is where I
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::[Brad Herda]: think organizations have the biggest
opportunity for attraction and retention and
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::[Brad Herda]: work like walls, right?
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::[Steve Doyle]: Right?
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::[Brad Herda]: If you set the expectation for
results and those results are being delivered
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::[Brad Herda]: and they're meeting the minimum
requirement, then cool, right? It shouldn't
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::[Brad Herda]: matter.
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::[Steve Doyle]: Mm-hmm.
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::[Brad Herda]: It shouldn't matter
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::[Steve Doyle]: Then what's
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::[Brad Herda]: if
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::[Steve Doyle]: the
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::[Brad Herda]: you've
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::[Steve Doyle]: problem?
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::[Brad Herda]: asked for 100. and you're expecting
150 and only producing 100 because that's what
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::[Brad Herda]: you've expected, don't get pissed
off because 150 is not being born.
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::[Steve Doyle]: Absolutely.
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::[Brad Herda]: Right.
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::[Steve Doyle]: And too many people, too many
businesses fall into that trap.
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::[Brad Herda]: I went through a, I received a
cale compensation survey from:171
::[Brad Herda]: pay scale got us one of their,
subscribed to one of their surveys and now
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::[Brad Herda]: I'm getting all their, you know,
propaganda emails, et cetera. But the survey
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::[Brad Herda]: came back and I found it very
interesting. So the quiet quitting piece to
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::[Brad Herda]: it, which is somewhat I think
relatable to this lack of effort piece or drive
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::[Brad Herda]: that we're talking about with
Gen Z. 85% of the organizations don't care
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::[Brad Herda]: about the quiet quitting, so to
speak, because if the work's getting done,
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::[Brad Herda]: it's not a big deal. And that's
on a scale of almost 4,000 respondents with
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::[Brad Herda]: company sizes from zero to 50,000
employees, right? A little bit different sample
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::[Brad Herda]: size, but I found that to be very
interesting that, hey, if the work is getting
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::[Brad Herda]: done, expectations are being met,
okay. Cool. Whether it takes you seven hours
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::[Brad Herda]: to do the job or whether it takes
you two hours to do the job. They don't care,
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::[Brad Herda]: as long as the job's getting done.
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::[Steve Doyle]: Right.
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::[Brad Herda]: and work.
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::[Steve Doyle]: Well, this is a great chair that
you found today, Brad.
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::[Brad Herda]: So I think it changes I think
Gen Z is that they're they don't want to waste
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::[Brad Herda]: the time because they'd rather
have more time outside of the organization
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::[Brad Herda]: than the inefficiency and nonsense
inside and just sitting there doing nothing
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::[Brad Herda]: twiddling their thumbs
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::[Steve Doyle]: Mm-hmm, absolutely.
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::[Brad Herda]: And that leadership piece is just.
there needs to be some adaptation there as
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::[Brad Herda]: well on the leader's side.
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::[Steve Doyle]: Right.
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::[Brad Herda]: And, and this, again, I think
this is a skewed piece that may have some,
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::[Brad Herda]: may have some things into it,
uh, that haven't come out appropriately in
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::[Brad Herda]: some areas. But
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::[Steve Doyle]: Right, it'd be great to get the
data from this.
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::[Brad Herda]: correct. It would be very interesting
to learn more, but I did not click the Learn
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::[Brad Herda]: More button. So if there is one,
resumebuilder.com, we will find it and go through
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::[Brad Herda]: it. But we found it very interesting
for the results that you're providing as to
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::[Brad Herda]: what industries or sectors you
might be dealing with.
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::[Steve Doyle]: Absolutely.
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::[Brad Herda]: So, Mr. Joel, it's
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::[Steve Doyle]: Cool, cool.
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::[Brad Herda]: been awesome again to get in contact
with you and have a conversation on this difficult
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::[Brad Herda]: Gen Z, prefer to hire millennials,
et cetera. And I think it comes down to plug
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::[Brad Herda]: and play versus willing to change
your organization.
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::[Steve Doyle]: Absolutely. Being able to adapt
and change.
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::[Brad Herda]: So, all right, so we talk again.
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::[Steve Doyle]: All right, awesome. Take
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::[Brad Herda]: Have a great
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::[Steve Doyle]: care, man.
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::[Brad Herda]: night. Thanks.
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::[Steve Doyle]: Yep.
