High End and Big Aspirations with Patrick Robertson

00:01 - Speaker 1

Welcome back to the show. Brad, here to how are you doing, my friend?

00:05 - Speaker 2

I am doing fantastic, mr Doyle, and how is it in the beautiful state of Michigan this week for you?

00:12 - Speaker 1

Well, you know, we had some great thunderstorms. If you like, 4th of July. Last night was the night for you. Half a metro to Trinidad without power today. I mean, it is phenomenal, you know. And then what happens?

00:26 - Speaker 2

Well, it's good for you.

00:27 - Speaker 1

Yeah, half the town without power. You know, today I worked alongside some electricians and found out. You know I had bad head and you know my pole kept smacking the rim of the hole all day.

00:41 - Speaker 2

So it was just I don't need to know, don't need to know, don't need to know. We can move on, mr Doyle, we'll just move on, ok.

00:48 - Speaker 1

Yeah, I was, you know, pulling some wire in my fish stick. You know did it properly. You know tie off at the head and you know it kept getting stuck on the hey, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, hey, we have a guest today.

01:00 - Speaker 2

You know, we have a guest today.

01:01 - Speaker 1

Oh, that's right, Me too, so let me invite him to show me that.

01:05 - Speaker 2

We're making a great first impression, Steve. Thank you so much. Yes, maybe so you guys should be. Today we have a gentleman from the great state of New York, mr Patrick Robertson, who is the owner and founder of Momentus Building Enterprises and has a diverse background, who was introduced to us from a previous guest of us. Ron Neusebaum and Patrick, we are excited here today to have you on our show to hear all the exciting things you got going on and your opinions and thoughts of the construction world.

01:36 - Speaker 3

Thank you so much for having me here today. Brad and Steve Looking forward to it. What a great introduction. This is my time to show it. I love it.

01:45 - Speaker 1

Awesome. So before we get started, before I forget, as Brad reminds me in our pre-show, which generation do you best fit in with?

01:54 - Speaker 3

I would have to say I technically fit in better with the millennials, although I don't know if that's something to be proud about or not, but I think I'd less agree with the generation Z. So you are less identified with the generation Z.

02:14 - Speaker 2

You less identify with G and identify more with millennials. Is that what you're saying? Yeah, yeah, yeah, You're standing up for millennials. Is what you're telling me.

02:22 - Speaker 3

Sadly, I have to make a choice, wow.

02:26 - Speaker 2

All right, you and Steve can march together.

02:27 - Speaker 1

Awesome. Oh, I'm sorry, awesome.

02:32 - Speaker 2

OK, boomer, hey, you know you re-put yourself at times. Right, guess what? I sewed all this shit right. Here we go. So how did you get into construction, patrick? How did you find your passion and your way to become your own business owner in this very dynamic and competitive world at such a young age?

02:55 - Speaker 3

Yeah, so really simple answer. I grew up in it. My father owns a GC company, so since sixth grade I've been working. Before that I was, you know, father and son.

03:06 - Speaker 2

Hey, were you working in New York as a sixth grader? I was. I think it's child labor laws. It's OK. It's New York, no big deal.

03:18 - Speaker 3

No, no but yeah. So that's kind of my backstory. And then you know, I have a great father told me go to college, get a degree. I got it in engineering and then found out I still wanted to be a contractor. So I found my way after a few years worked for my father and then figured out opening my own company was the best way that I could provide the most value to my clients and also achieve the dreams that I have for myself.

03:47 - Speaker 2

r firm, your organization, in: 2020

04:10 - Speaker 3

y working on a house from the: 1800

04:28 - Speaker 2

Right, yeah, not 3 and 1 half 4. Oh shit, my math is different.

04:33 - Speaker 3

Yeah, and like seeing like a 4 by 8 header, like that's literally 4 inches by 8 inches, and it's like sewing just chopped a tree down and it's in your house. So it's really cool. Brings a whole different set of challenges and then I'm blessed. I have amazing clients that want the best, so I get to perform and work on the best project, which is just a blessing if it's well-made.

04:57 - Speaker 2

o their house to work on this: 1800

05:29 - Speaker 3

Yeah. So it's funny. I have a lot of these conversations with people my age that are whether it's a different business, industry or construction, and I dealt with this myself and a lot of that oh you're young, you're just a kid type of thing is self-perceived Like it's how we walk into the room and how we talk and how much you actually know your craft right. So I overcome that with being the best possible contractor and knowing the most that I possibly can and I have that conversation and luckily over the years I've built up a reputation so my referral basis is very strong and I walk in the room like I'm 40 years old and I've been doing this my whole life because quite frankly, I have. So that objection definitely comes up. But when we sit down for 45 minutes an hour, an hour and a half, and we're talking about the project for 15 minutes and then we're talking about life and all these other things for 45 minutes an hour, which really builds the relationship with the client, that age thing really dissipates quickly.

06:34 - Speaker 2

That's spectacular and, like you said, if you were working since six, that gives you 20 plus years of experience already, even though it's only three years of business owner. Right, yeah, yep, which is fantastic and that is often overlooked in the trades world. When we have young people into the coming into the market, is that perception comes out and says, well, how do you know anything? Right?

07:00 - Speaker 1

Mm-hmm.

07:01 - Speaker 2

And the wisdom you've gained over those years of watching the mistakes and learning differently has had, I gotta imagine, had a great impact on your ability to take on these older homes and these older projects, because you've seen a lot more things than many others possibly.

07:18 - Speaker 3

Yeah, that's exactly it. I mean I kinda had the cheat code too, or, my father being the owner of the company, I got to do stuff a lot faster and a lot more than someone else. That was 16, 17, 18, 19, right, like there was a summer, and I think it was 16, and the whole summer I was on an excavator. I was running two 260,000 pound excavators with hammer, changing out bucket, going here and there pouring foundations, doing excavations, so but like, what kind of 16 year old gets that education? So like I had these cheat codes where, like I wasn't a driver for three years, I was working in the field, working with the clients, doing these upper tier things that, quite frankly, were probably above my pay grade, but I'm a very quick learner and I was blessed to be in that position. So that's kinda how you know my experience with Skyrocketed because of that.

08:28 - Speaker 2

Besides your dad, was there anybody else on the crew that kinda took you underneath the wing and supported you Well?

08:35 - Speaker 3

I have to say that I have to thank you know, all the subcontractors too, right, because I would get plopped on the job and I might be more of like in a viewer management role on the project. But the subcontractors like, oh yeah, come check this out. Oh, they're like we're plumbing out a toilet and I just sit there and watch them. You know we're roughing in a shower, just sit there and watch them. So, and they would like that and they would like the conversation, because I wouldn't mind having these blue collar truck driver conversations that probably, if you know, 16 year old trying to be hearing well, like it was really cool and that's how I grew up.

09:11 - Speaker 2

So You're really trying to restrain yourself here from dropping any language, but hey, you know what? We are considered. We are an explicit show according to Apple Podcast and everything, so it's okay.

09:26 - Speaker 3

So when you know your plumber's talking about how he goes to Columbia and fucks hookers and you're okay with that conversation, like the personality and the personfulness kinda comes right in. But you get the open door see how they're plumbing, right, right, wow.

09:51 - Speaker 2

That one, that one, that one where I I did open the door and that's okay, it's all good.

10:02 - Speaker 1

Yeah.

10:02 - Speaker 2

But it's true, it is true, it is not necessarily a place. So, okay, let me ask you this question. So are you mostly self-perform work today, or are you have a lot of subs in your place for you?

10:14 - Speaker 3

So that's kind of where I see that I utilize my expertise and my skill set. I subcontract everything out, except for a few core guys that are on my team. But that allows me to, like, I've been blessed finding amazing plumbers, amazing carpenters, amazing painters, electricians where, like, we all have set standards right, Like booties on. Like you're cleaning up it's your responsibility to clean up your mess. Right, You're taking the trash away at the end of the day. You know you have to do that. There better be nothing when I come by at the end of the day, or if I come to check out the job tomorrow. Right, If I didn't get to close you guys out. So I've been able to acquire and build an amazing team to service our clients, and I think that that's really my skill set that I provide to my clients where it's like I don't necessarily have them all in my payroll, but it's even better because I found guys that I probably couldn't afford at the time but they work for me all the time now.

11:17 - Speaker 2

So to set those expectations, to bring that expectation way up here to that gold standard, did you run into any as you brought suppliers in and out? Did you run into any issues with some of the old farts that like, hey well, I'm not going to listen to this kid to tell me to go take out my own garbage. If he's young enough, he can go take out his own goddamn garbage, I'm not going to take care of it. Were there any of those types of things that occurred as you built up that supply base that you had to kind of roll through?

11:48 - Speaker 3

Yeah. So I get that all the time, especially being someone younger, right, and it's really, really challenging to have the conversation when I know it's truly right and needs what needs to be done, what material needs to be used, what the method is of the installation is, and then I have a title installer, an electrician or someone saying no, no, no, we can't do it like that. No, no, no, I'm going to do it like this, right, and I have to play this personality game, try to get them to do ultimately the better job. Sometimes, however, I do have to play the boss role and lay down the hammer. Now, that's never pretty.

12:26

I specifically remember when I was working commercial construction in Manhattan, one of my big projects first big projects I was running 100 guys a day by myself on two different floors and this foreman carpenter, probably in his 50s and 60s great guy, great carpenter came up, gauthier. Later he's like you, mother, blah, blah, blah and yelling at me for five or 10 minutes and because I kind of did some scheduling, say we had to do stuff like this, he didn't agree with it. But you know, I didn't, I didn't engage in that, and I think that's where a lot of people go wrong is that they try to fight back in a battle you can't win. So I took it, I bit my tongue, I didn't say anything and I remember this experience because it wasn't something pretty, but I had to call his boss, right to say this is how it has to be done.

13:17

The seller job site is being run. Do you have a problem with that? And he goes no, we'll proceed. And we had to kind of lay down the hammer. But why I say that? Like coming back to the beginning question of like do you get rejection? That you're young, it is so important that you're always right and that you know everything that's coming out of your mouth, Because if you do that and you are right and you lay down the wrong law, a good, aware person that can drop their ego. They'll be able to understand that and they'll. They might not say, okay, Patrick, you were right, but they won't say anything and they'll respect you for it because you actually made the right call.

13:59 - Speaker 2

Right, and having that stack of I told you so cards in your back pocket, you can't play them either, right? Because if you do, if you play it on them now, it just becomes that battle back and forth and you've. It's not a win-win, it's a lose-lose.

14:13 - Speaker 3

At that point, and speaking of other generations right, that's not how you do it. You don't walk up the next day and say I told you so. That's a super immature way to do it. Right, the best way to do it you execute the plan and the next day you buy each other, you buy them a cup of coffee and you don't even talk about it How's your day? And then just mutual agreement and, from what I understand the generational differences. That's the best way to do it. That's how men do it. I mean it doesn't have to be just be men, but guys have a lot of ego and they don't want to talk about it. But they'll understand it behind in the background.

14:48 - Speaker 2

Right. So I'm going to ask you a futuristic question here for you, right? So you've come into this industry. You're sitting here as just a few years removed from that Gen Z group of individuals. So in another five to six years or so, right, you're going to be that guy sitting there and, hey, you know what you got to fill out that crew, and I'm not going to go find the 48-year-old guy to come into my crew because it's not what you want to do. In comes the 20-year-old, who now also has 14 years of experience and wisdom behind him because of him working with his father, or whatever it might be.

15:28

Can you envision yourself allowing somebody to come in to be smarter than you into your business? I hope to God. That is an awesome fucking response. That is the best response ever, dude. Thank you for that response.

15:43 - Speaker 3

Brad, I'm sure you're far enough in life and business that if you're the smartest one in the room, you've got a fucking problem on your hands.

15:51 - Speaker 2

I'm not disagreeing, but you'd be surprised how many individuals I see in your age range who have their business, who don't think that way.

16:03 - Speaker 3

It's ridiculous.

16:05 - Speaker 2

It is absolutely ridiculous. I appreciate you so much for coming up to that response because I'm like, okay, awesome, that's spectacular.

16:17 - Speaker 3

It's the only way to progress, because if I want to get to my goal of being a development company, of transforming hundreds of people's lives on a single project, how am I ever gonna do that? Like I would have to have a ridiculous amount of ego saying that I know everything and I'm the best here and this is gonna be Patrick Robertson development. I'd be an asshole, to be honest, like that. That's really what I would be. So, yeah, we ought to lay down our ego now. I'm gonna stand up when I know what's right and I'm gonna be those head.

16:49 - Speaker 2

There's gonna be those battles. There's gonna be that, those things that you know. You want something done a certain way, because that's what you've done it for Right. You want ninety degrees to be ninety degrees in a corner.

17:02 - Speaker 3

Stop that hard yes, or, and it might be that hey listen, brad, we're gonna have a round table. You know, what do you think about this? What do you think about that? I think I take the advice, take it all in and you know what we're gonna go with my answer, even though you presented all yours, because, although you guys present great options, this is what needs to get done.

17:24 - Speaker 2

And you're carrying as the business owner, you are carrying the risk and the burden and the responsibility and all the things that come along with it. Yeah, and that's, there's some of that. That goes a long way from that perspective. You mentioned you got a few guys on your crew. Where do they fit in the age ranges For your set, for your W2's?

17:47 - Speaker 3

in 30s 30s, so I haven't really found anyone younger Coming on board yet. But the caveat is that is that my area where I live and work it's an older population. It's not a city area. I mean like I'm single primarily because, like most single, girls aren't can afford to live in my area when they're in their 20s. It's it's a really bougie area and it's good. It has its great benefits, but most people are in their 30s, 40s, 50s and 60s so I don't really get a whole bunch of that crowd looking for jobs in my area. I wish, because then I would get the chance to literally train somebody from the ground up and make them A team leader monster. I would love that.

18:33 - Speaker 2

Okay, pre show you kind of mentioned You're looking at moving down to Texas the great city of. Texas, of going from New York to Texas. So what's facilitating that change or what's the opportunity looking like from that? Because now you're going to come from a that's going to be two very different worlds.

18:56 - Speaker 3

To two very different worlds, but I'm. It actually fits into more of like my personality. I'm not a huge winter person so, being 17, single, I have nothing to tie me down here, except for my company, okay. So I think we also in life need to make sure we're happy. You know, money, business, it's all great stuff, but if you don't have the core happiness of where you live and what you like doing, then that's a problem. So my move is actually going to be twofold it's moving but it's also getting into what I truly love and that's real estate overall through building and development. So I'm going to be tackling projects like that, utilizing the great education experience I've had in construction so far and then getting more on to even more to the management, oversight and ownership of projects, to kind of craft the vision that you know in my gut. I know it's right to do. Okay, that's.

19:53 - Speaker 2

Is that going to be mostly residential development, commercial development? What kind of development worker you looking to get into, because those are commercial? I mean residential high end remodeling is very different than multi use development spaces. See, it is, but here's the thing that I'm actually student of his business.

20:20 - Speaker 3

So I love the business and that's what's gotten me successful, because I can provide an amazing business experience and structure for my clients right, and that's what I believe is the most important thing for any contractor. That's what any contractors lacking in our industry that is having troubles it's the actual business expertise. So my background of knowing what a change order is and all this stuff is you actually use change orders.

20:45 - Speaker 2

Yeah, I use Coke and I'm a nut. Like I'm everything I'm saying that because most people don't, and it screws them in the back, at the back end Most people don't know.

20:57 - Speaker 3

most contractors don't know what how an allowance works Like. Most contractors don't know that. Like just because you have an allowance of five grand and say a magically comes out to five grand, which Usually doesn't but say it does, you still have to do it. Zero dollar change order To change that allowance into it. Most so, if anyone's listening for a contractor, highly recommend understanding how to go from an allowance or an allowance option into cementing into the contract via change order very, very important.

21:31 - Speaker 2

Massively important just from a legal perspective and from a opportunity perspective. So it is. But that is a very important piece and I don't know how many people end up getting themselves into legal troubles and into small claims court or into theft by contractor because they decided not to do the change order. And the biggest thing. So my clients, I don't care if you say you're going to take care of it and you may not want to charge them. Right, I'm going to move this outlet from A to B. Great, you'll take care of it, but go ahead and do the change order. Hey, it's going to be $450. Move outlet from South Wall to North Wall. $450 credit, $450, zero dollar, zero time. Have them sign it so they know that they're getting value along the way, because otherwise, if you just say I'll take care of it, it just piles up and you forget what's what and then it becomes a mess.

22:27 - Speaker 3

Yeah, and if it's a change on the project I mean, even if you don't want to go that extreme, which I'd recommend documenting and signing it off at least send an email. It's like hey, listen, brad. Thank you so much for the great phone call. I noticed we had those two outlets over there. We want to change it over to the South Wall. We're just going to take care of it like we talked about on the phone. You know, just respond here if you have any problems or you want to talk about it at all, but otherwise we're going to move forward like I've discussed. And that simple thing alone, if you ever have to go into mediation, a court, is massively, massively important. Because here's the thing In the moment. It's very clear conversation, blah, blah, but six months later when the painting's done, the outlet covers are done, people forget about that one week conversation and decision they can process and the little words that were exchanged here and there.

23:16 - Speaker 2

Right, I didn't. I didn't choose this great paint. I wanted this room to be blue. Yeah, no, no, no, this is here it is. Here's what you have. You pick the gray signed off on it. Here it is.

23:29 - Speaker 3

Exactly. It's very important. But I got a question for you. What do you see, what do you see lacking in the generation Z or even the younger millennials in the workforce and, specifically, construction? I'd love to hear your thoughts on it being a boomer.

23:45 - Speaker 2

I'm not. I'm Jen. I'm Gen X. I'm not a boomer, just letting you know, just in case I'm on the tail. I'm on the leading edge of Jenna End of that boomer range, similar to you being on the tail end of that millennial crowd in the beginning. Right, you're on the tail end of millennial, I'm on the front end of Gen X, so it's okay. What I see in the Gen Zs is ultimately a lot of loyalty, a very loyal generation to brand product different things. So both my kids are Gen Z and watching them go through what they've experienced in high school, college and early career starts thus far is change, is not what they intended. Enjoy.

24:33

Because, everything's been scheduled for forever and a day Since they've been right go to school, go to sports, come home, do homework, go to bed, da-da-da. It's just very routine. And that's upset of that. Change is not always something that's exciting for them. And if organizations, when organizations provide them the ability to see a career path, they will take on that career path. What they also are very quick at is if there's nothing to do and there's no value there, they're out the door just as quickly as the millennial crowd was right. So a my generation and the older, you know, to make work last eight hours. I might have two hours worth of work to make last eight hours. Great, the Gen Z kids are going to do two hours of work and say I'm out of here. I don't want to be sitting around here for six more hours twirling my thumbs doing nothing. I'm going to get the work done so I can go do something else, because there's. Tell me what you want me to do, I'll do it and then I'm gone and then leave me alone right.

25:38

So that's a downside potential, but I see that more as a leadership opportunity for the other generations to understand versus a them problem.

25:48 - Speaker 3

Yeah. So I couldn't agree more. And I asked that because, from what I primarily see, like all my cousins and everyone's younger than me, I'm pretty much the oldest of the crowd and what I've seen is just that is that there is a lack of it seems like initiative. It seems like initiative, but really what it is? It's a lack of incentive, and I think this all stems from the fact that their entire life has been easy, very, very easy.

26:21

The generation had phones, they had computers, they had I mean, I personally, probably my age group, was the last to feel what a recession is, and I only remember it is because my dad is a contractor. So every night there was an argument in the kitchen between my parents about how there's no goddamn money left. So I know what that average distinctly remember what hard times actually are like. But imagine growing up in a life where there's no problems. Your biggest problem is if you're going to take up basketball or some other sport in the winter, and that's not a problem. And then you're giving cell phones. You're giving all this stuff and it makes a really, really easy life.

27:08

And then, increasingly, parents have becoming more from a helicopter parent to a bulldozer parent, right and just basically plowing the way for them where there's no actual struggle, there's no go figure it out yourself type of thing. It's raining out today. The parents will just hear your boots, it's raining out today. Meanwhile, they don't have to think that like, oh, I should probably wear boots today because it's raining out. So I see all of that really stemming from a problem of parenting, and there's probably going to be a lot of parents listening to this and hating for it, because I've told this to my parents and they don't like the way that sounds either.

27:45 - Speaker 2

But it's the reality. It is reality, it is very much a reality, and that's mentoring in the first robotics program and seeing young students in high school from freshman and senior year do all of those things that they were doing and being away and coaching youth sports for a bunch of years. Kids will get things right if you give them the chance. They're not stupid. Oh no, they're not stupid. People are not stupid. They will do what they need to do if they're given the right opportunities and enough guard rails to not do something completely stupid. But at the end of the day, we're humans and we're going to probably make good decisions at the end of the day if we're doing them for the right reasons and given the right incentives along the way. Like you said, the lack of incentive is the biggest thing. So welcome back, mr Doyle. Yeah, love, love, tech issues it's great yeah.

28:47

I'm just hoping we get the first part of the show, so anyhow. So, Patrick, how somebody wants to get a hold of you, whether you're in New York, Dallas wants to work on a project, wants to connect with you about how you're building, how you created your empire that you're building. How do people get a hold of you? What do they do? Where do you hang out?

29:06 - Speaker 3

g in a new state after moving: 1800

29:39 - Speaker 2

Okay, that is very cool, it's awesome. I am super excited for you. I am very happy that you're able to come on the show today. I'm glad that Mr Doyle was able to be here in the beginning and the end, so that's always fantastic for us. With people in part, I know right Beginning out, how about that middle stuff, those details, don't worry about it, those details, yeah. So thank you very much, patrick, for being here today. We greatly appreciate your time, your thoughts, your insight and all the best in your move to Dallas.

30:12 - Speaker 3

Thank you so much, Brad. Thank you so much, Steve. It was great chatting with you guys. I really enjoyed this Thanks.

30:16 - Speaker 2

Thanks. Thanks Was great.