Hug a Contractor with Toby van Sistine

Brad Herda (: 00:01

Hey everyone, welcome back to this episode of the Blue Collar BS Podcast, the award-winning, actually two-time award-winning Blue Collar BS podcast. today I am flying solo again because Mr. Doyle has politely declined today's recording. As if you are paying attention to all the things that are going on, he has been redoing a deck, getting ready for graduation, traveling, family, all sorts of fun things. So he is

Taking care of things that he needs to take care of. So I get to ride solo today with a guest that has that will bring a lot of excitement to today's show. we have our guest, Mr. Toby Ven Sistine. He is the executive officer of the Metropolitan Builders Association, which I am a proud member of for almost nine years now, I believe. he's been with the MBA now 11 years. He was vice president, owner, and construction manager of.

for a general contractor doing great home opportunities, then was also doing design and drafting work for a couple other places, went to the University of Minnesota, came back to Wisconsin for some reason after being up in Minnesota. He's a Cubmaster guy, he is a Cub Scout guy, he's a Star Wars geek, he's all the things, he's a candy candy freak, and we are happy to have him here today, Mr. Toby Vencistine. Welcome to the Blue Collar BS podcast.

Toby V (: 01:24

Thank you, Brad. I'm super excited to be here. I figured when Steve said he couldn't come, he just heard I was coming and was like, no, I don't want a part of that. So I'm I'm not sure if I should be up there. Yeah.

Brad Herda (: 01:32

I didn't want to h I didn't want to hurt your feelings. I did not want to hurt your feelings with that, but he kinda gave me that sidewink with that, yes.

Toby V (: 01:39

Nice. Nice. Appreciate that. Great to be here and thank you for having me

Brad Herda (: 01:43

No problem. So Steve's not here to answer ask this question, so I get to ask it on his behalf. What generation are you part of or belong to?

Toby V (: 01:53

I am a proud member of the unspoken Gen Xer.

Brad Herda (: 01:57

You're that old?

Toby V (: 01:59

god, heck yeah. That old. Really? yeah. Yeah, I crossed the I crossed the half century mark a a year or two back. So yeah, I'm pretty I'm pretty sure, man. My all of my achy bones say that I am.

Brad Herda (: 02:00

Really? Really? Are you sure?

Brad Herda (: 02:13

Huh. Okay. All right. I could yeah, all right. When I look at the when I look at the things there. Yeah, that makes sense. Okay, I didn't think you were. Huh. All right.

Toby V (: 02:20

Wait, how old did you think I was?

Brad Herda (: 02:23

I thought yeah, I thought you were at the older end of the millennial category. But yeah, I remember that's some of the that's some of the biases that we capture after we know people and doing different things for so long, right? We forget how much how time goes by and we remember from where they're at versus where they're at.

Toby V (: 02:26

Yeah.

Toby V (: 02:37

Just that no that young at heart, that's all it is.

Brad Herda (: 02:40

Yeah, that's it. That is it. So let's start with the association. Let's start with the MBA, the the Metro former Metropolitan, but now Metro Builders Association.

Toby V (: 02:53

you go. You know that brand update is like going on two years now, right? Like you kinda let it go, dude.

Brad Herda (: 02:56

Yeah, that doesn't mean I have to like it. That doesn't mean I have to like it, right? what what brought you to the association? What what what kept you in the home building industry?

Toby V (: 03:11

Well, I mean certainly that is that has been a a longer journey than you thought it was based on my age. from from going through school, w did did grow up locally, so I'm a a Heartland kid. so I I've pretty much spent most of my life in southeastern Wisconsin. did go away to the University of Minnesota, studied studied aerospace engineering for a year, didn't like the programming thought. Well, if I'm not gonna build houses on Mars, I'll build them here. Got into the School of Architecture and fell in love with

with architecture, with design, with construction. first part of my my design side of my career was in the commercial side of things. did a lot of projects in municipal buildings, firehouses, worked a a lot of post office jobs and then got into single family remodeling and and new home construction to truly affect people's lives. it's not that the the commercial side of things isn't critically important, but boy

a lot of budget answering and why wasn't it faster? And you design colors are in white, off-white, light white, and dark white. you know, there's just there's not a lot of excitement that that that comes in the commercial world. but when you got into home construction and home renovation and you were affecting moms and dads and kids and people's lives, that was really rewarding. and certainly doing it every day. And I used to kid, I only worked half days, pick any 12 hours a day you want, seven days a week.

but right. But you there was an opportunity at the association where I got to do something maybe a little bit bigger. and through some some needed life changes and things that were going on with me personally. the the job opening was there, got into membership and business development, and then worked through operations into government affairs and now I'm the executive officer. So I have literally walked miles in the boots of the people we represent and I'm excited to represent them and the industry as a whole.

Brad Herda (: 05:05

Spectacular and thank you for what you do for the association. I've told you this numerous times. The advocacy side of what we do for our state and for our region is nothing short of spectacular and often goes underlooked and under underappreciated and under observed. because what nobody cares. Nobody cares until it matters. Nobody cares until they have to write the check for the extra thing and they go, huh?

Where'd all this extra where'd all these extra fees come from? Well, they came because nobody cared. And now with that people care, we get to do some great things. you also have a kid that's in the industry, if I recall correctly, correct?

Toby V (: 05:45

I do. and in in fact, so I'm a a blended family of five. and they are they're all amazing children. I've got one that works in in HR that actually works at a a a company that does more mechanical systems, HVAC, things like that right now, currently. I've got one that that now just came on to one of our members, Water Doctors, but I specifically have a kid who puts on work boots every morning, is out the door by six o'clock.

and I say kid, my youngest is twenty-one. So again, not not the little no not little kids anymore. right. But my my I've got a a twenty-three, twenty-three year old that he just got into the apprenticeship program for electrical. but he's been working four years in the in the field of God going on five now. it's probably right at five. Yeah, I'm old. It just happens. but super excited for all of them, but absolutely spectacular that he is out.

Brad Herda (: 06:19

Gen Z.

Brad Herda (: 06:29

Nice.

Brad Herda (: 06:35

Сі, 4.

Toby V (: 06:44

every single day, pulling wires and making connections and hooking up lights and affecting lives. So it's it's awesome. Super proud of them all.

Brad Herda (: 06:53

Right. So so we started this show, Steve and I going through the generational aspect of things. And you see, you have been through and seen a lot. You see a lot with our members. You see a lot with what's going on. you're also part of Citizen Advisory with the Home Building Trades Foundation that I sit on the board for as well. you know, just kind of that workforce side of things to make connections. What did you so as your son was going through and getting to the electrical side of things, if if

He didn't have you to show him paths. Do you think he'd be where he is today or doing what he's doing?

Toby V (: 07:30

I'll I'll tell you this is in looking at a certain age group and whether it's generational or not, but just maybe even a smaller group, there's an incredible amount of laziness that is in children. that maybe they're not figuring it out. I mean, just really particular, like unmountivated, just sitting around doing stuff but no, I think that i w with him,

Brad Herda (: 07:50

Now you sound like an old guy.

Toby V (: 07:57

you know, certainly knew that that he could do great things and he having a ton of options out there. And he equates the the moment that he knew he wanted to get into the trades and and head down the electoral path. We had bought a house that was new to us. when he was a junior going into his senior year of high school. And he he was helping me do a a little bit of work in the in the basement and

we have a a partially finished basement and we're putting some new puck lights in. And he just he really had fun. He really liked it. And we was lucky enough on his on his own, had gotten into the dual enrollment program at WCTC. So right, local tech school has a program that senior of high school, you do high school and college classes together. And he got into the the the program was that was specifically for construction trades. So one day a week he was doing plumbing, one was HVAC, one was

electrical framing and then there was like the soft skills. How do you write a resume and how do talk to people and things like that. and he he went through that program, graduated, had his OSHA card, some some basic understanding of construction. and it was spectacular. He he just kind of stumbled into having an opportunity talking to one of our other another member of of ours just to talk about what was happening in the world. and that member was so impressed they were looking to hire somebody

and actually turned that person away to make a a spot for my kid. So they offered him a job just simply by his enthusiasm and excitement while they sat down just kind of talking about the trades. And lo and behold, he puts on his his red shirt every day with the logo on it and his name and off he goes. So yeah, he's doing great.

Brad Herda (: 09:41

Okay. But to to the question though, of of you were very political in that response, which is awesome. That's great. We're not gonna

Toby V (: 09:49

I d I'm sure he'd be in the trades. I mean he smart kid. He could beat me in chest by the time he was ten. He would not be in my trades. Yeah.

Brad Herda (: 09:56

But do you but but given that given of who you are and what you were doing and what your involvement was, if if you weren't doing if you weren't doing that and you weren't fixing your own putting lights in your own basement, would you have found that path without that direction, I g is the question.

Toby V (: 10:11

No. No. I mean it was it was having those opportunities. If I wasn't there, sure he probably would have a trades job, but not like this. Not on the path that he's on.

Brad Herda (: 10:23

Right. And I guess that's the thing that I you know, how or what are you seeing at other associations or other industry places or other folks that you have in in the association world, how are they how are they getting their members to be able to identify or show the path or show the opportunity? 'Cause it's from my viewpoint, our show's viewpoint,

The Gen Zs, if they don't see the path forward and see what can happen and what the what the greater good is, they're going to ignore it. And we already did that to the industry has already done that to a generation and a half of telling everybody they're not good enough. now we're trying to scramble and gen alpha right behind them is gonna be a whole nother battle royal just a completely different mind shift change for the fourteen and fifteen year olds that are gonna coming into industry very soon.

Toby V (: 11:16

You know, it i I think there's a funny thing too, where we talk about even with the the trades foundation and everything else, creating opportunities for for kids to be able to see what's going on, to experience the trades, that's really cool. But there has got to be some some messaging specifically to parents about it's okay if your kid wants to be a plumber. It's okay if your kid wants to get into something where they're working with their hands. Because there's there certainly was this mentality. And my dad was this way. He was, you gotta go to college.

He came from a generation that it college was kind of the not for the super elite, but definitely for a very small percentage of people going on to getting, you know, a college degree. And and you know, he went right into the workforce and he was seeing kids, you know, 20 years younger than him that are just racing up through the the ranks because they had a piece of paper that said, I know something. And I mean he he kind of turned to turned to me, he turned to my brother and said, Hey.

Whatever you gotta do, I don't care what school you go to, I'll pay for half of it up front. But you've got to go to college. and I you know, and and I was not that way with my kids. And it's not that, you know, love my daddy's my hero. But you know, certainly parents have to understand, like i support your kids. If they love it, go do it. They don't have to you don't have to go to college to make a good living. In fact, some of the highest paid wage individuals you don't need that piece of paper. So, you know

Brad Herda (: 12:41

Correct. And there and there's ways to get that knowledge today. So it's so different right now, in society, right now, with technology, our phones, all the information that's out of the internet. It's just way different to learn today than it was when you went to high school, I went to high school. right. There there was no instant access. You had to go to the freaking library, you had to go find the magazine or get the encyclopedia or get the thing, read through it. That was

fucking ten years, fifteen years old of information, hope maybe you could find a new one somewhere to say, Hey, what was what's this new what's the new fli and or find a newspaper article or scan the you know, you had to do a lot of research to find things and today it's all at the touch of a button.

Toby V (: 13:26

pick every car, you know, car guy that was that was in the the eighties, nineties, early two thousands. You you bought a car, first thing you did was you bought the owner's manual for it. That was the tech manual and they're like two inches thick, right? And you want to know how to change a this or fix a that and you're looking at schematics and whatever. Now just quick Google, hit your TikTok.

Brad Herda (: 13:46

The the Chil you you bought the Chilton's manual, that is correct.

Toby V (: 13:49

I still have a r a Rand McNally Atlas that is completely wrong because roads have changed. But you know, it's i anybody that's that's a I mean, Gen X or earlier, you remember driving down the road with a book on your lap trying to figure out where you're going? I mean, it's just the way that it worked. Yeah. Kids kids are lucky and also cursed with having that technology in their pockets.

Brad Herda (: 14:03

Right. It was

Brad Herda (: 14:10

So one of the things that I that the MBA has put a stake in the ground for is the is the parade of homes, right? and and we have as an association over the years and the foundation, right, used that used that parade, those partial builds, that opportunity to expose a bunch of students and things into the home building process and into the situation. talk to us about

This year's Parade of Homes, what's going on, and what you've seen change over the years from the parade side of things with with the houses and the technology and and maybe the folks that are even doing the work today.

Toby V (: 14:52

Yeah, I mean, you know, the the the the Pareto Homes, I mean it's a it's a cornerstone event of of the Metropolitan Bill Association. I said Metropolitan just for you by I said I said it for you. That was intentional. so we are we are in the eightieth year of the Parade of Homes. Technically it should be the eighty first, but there was something that happened five, six years ago that the world shut down for a year. and we had to take a pause. So we've been doing this since the forties. we believe the longest running Pareto homes in the nation

Brad Herda (: 15:01

I'm sorry, what was it? What what

Toby V (: 15:21

We argue with one other city, but that's okay. We've been doing this a really long time. the parade opens right now. So I mean tickets are tickets are available. Go to NBA Paretohomes.com for all the information you need. this year we've got two amazing sites, one in Okanawak, one in Menominee Falls. there's a bunch of beautiful houses. you know, I'm I'm old enough in my generation to remember when million dollar houses were mansions and now they're three bedroom starters. But

Brad Herda (: 15:46

True.

Toby V (: 15:48

Right. But we do have a couple of really large, I think one of them is pushing nine thousand square feet. there's one that rumor has it is gonna have a duck pin bowling alley. I haven't seen it personally firsthand yet, inside. So there's gonna be some really cool things. but you know, even in looking at what's what's changed over the last, you know, five, ten, twenty years, think about the the advancements and the things that have happened when smart home first really started.

And it was basically I've got some cool controls on the lights. Like that was it. And then you remember when, you know, again, old enough to have said the phrase, Hey mom, I'm gonna turn on the TV to let the color warm up before the show I want to watch is coming on. and now there's, you know, 90 inch TVs and there's there's you name it. I mean it's it's some of the tech that's in them in the in the bathrooms and the faucets and the sinks and you know, it's it's absolutely crazy. the things that you can have if you want it in your house.

It's it's just it's just wild. and now AI is obviously you know big conversation, not just in the technology available, whether it's the the gizmo sitting on your counter that you talk to that talks back, that you ask it to put stuff on shopping lists and everything else. I mean, and they run your house. Turn this on, turn that off. You know, hey Google. Everybody says that now, right? so lots of really cool technology trying to make your lives a a better place. but even things, you know, smart fridges that you can

Look inside your refrigerator from the grocery store just to make sure if you've still got milk or not. all of that technology is there and present. It's crazy. I mean

Brad Herda (: 17:23

Yeah. Somebody s some see it it's just more as as the resident old guy on the show, it's just more shit to break, more problems to take care more problems to deal with, more errors, and who's going to fix it, right? 'Cause 'cause the guy that's been in the repair place and I have I have had clients for appliance repair, high end appliance repair.

And it is more of an IT job than it is a mechanical job. I and so you have trying to understand to find individuals that are both going to be able to deal with, you know, ones and zeros and and hidden electrons, along with the mechanical connection of of compressors and diagnosis and bearings and all those that's a very that's that is a typically two different skill sets.

Toby V (: 17:53

Mm-hmm. you're right. You're absolutely correct.

Toby V (: 18:19

For sure. And I think that the so one of the things that I'll I'll tell you is my perception of the world is that the tech in the appliances, in the machines, is disposable. They have made it so that, yeah, they're expensive, but if they start to break, they're almost more expensive to fix than to just get a new one. The catch to this is how do you make it all talk together? How do you make

That TV and that fridge and that light fixture and that heating system and that whatever, none of it all speaks the same language. So now you have integration and you have how do I make it do all the things I want it to when I want it to. I mean, there's stories that we hear from our members where a kid walks in the door and mom and dad got an alert, kid came home. And then the TV turns on, but it only stays on for 30 minutes so they can watch TV, but then they got to do their homework. And mom and dad know that they went and got a sandwich out of the fridge and what they were eating and how many

You know, cans of s diet coke did they get, Brad?

Brad Herda (: 19:19

Hey, hey, hey, hey, let's not go there. Hey, that die coke, alright.

Toby V (: 19:24

I'm I'm drinking one of yours right now, man. I'm just saying, like this is Brad's Dye Coke right here. So, you know, it's

Brad Herda (: 19:29

Yes, that's a that's an inside joke, folks. it yes, it goes yes. Ask me someday what that means.

Toby V (: 19:35

Brad bases No, all you have to know everybody is something really simple. Brad bases value on number of Diet Cokes that it gets for that. So he looks at a new home and says, That's eighteen million cans of Diet Coke right there. So that's how Brad does it. It's his it's his currency of his time. Yeah, Brad currency. That's what it is. but yeah, it's it's I mean the the it is unfortunate, but just think about, you know

Brad Herda (: 19:53

Currency.

Toby V (: 20:02

things that that you used to keep for a really long time. My parents bought a refrigerator and had it for over forty years. And the whole reason that they replaced it after 40 years was because the compressor started to squeak and only my mother could hear it. And it was like once every two minutes. And it turned into a whole new set of kitchen appliances and a a redealer kitchen all because of a ske squeaky compressor out on a 40 year old unit. It won't make them like that anymore. It just

Brad Herda (: 20:29

No, we did we just replaced our refrigerator this year because our ours was twelve years old and went into the freezer and had a a a pool in the ice bucket, essentially, right? Open up the freezer and the water slosh in. It's like, this is not good. And you know, talk to the folks over at Grand Appliance and different things and hey, what do you think the right idea should be? Like, it's 12 years old. We could send somebody out there, it's gonna cost you this much just to get somebody out there to look at it.

so you're probably two thirds of the way of a new one, if you'd like. your choice, you figure it out. Like, yeah, screw it. And then it and then and then it's a couple weeks to wait to get the stuff and then get the parts, so you're now inconvenienced for that long. So I bought we bought a new one and had it in two days instead of several weeks.

Toby V (: 21:21

Yep. Yep. And I think and that's it again, it's unfortunate. It it sucks that you can't buy something and know that you're gonna have it for as long as you wanna have it. It is not how it works. You have it if s if an appliance lasts you ten years, you're like, hey, that that's awesome. Way to we win. That is not the way that it should be, but that's the way it is.

Brad Herda (: 21:42

What are you seeing from a national viewpoint when you go out to the national side of things and talk to other executive directors, officers of other HBAs from different parts of the country, right? I think here in southeastern Wisconsin we get a little i isolated from the ebbs and flows and the ups and downs and the the extremes of the extreme really highs and the extreme really lows. our unemployment rate isn't really something that's horrendous.

per se, it's still still, yes, it's difficult to I don't I don't want to say it's difficult to find the right people. What I think most indust businesses struggle with is that they're struggling with the training of an individual who comes in without the same skill, knowledge, and background that they grew up with to to get them acclimated into their industry and they're looking for they're looking for the plug and play, the Windows plug in play from a

You know, a mouse from mouse to mouse, it doesn't matter which one it is, just plug it in and it works. That's not how the trades work. what do you hear from other other parts of the country? Same

Toby V (: 22:49

I mean that say same. I mean Wisconsin is you know, is is not is not special in any of that. you know, everybody is having problems finding good quality workers. you know, everything that we talk about in in generational differences, it's the same across the US, right? And certainly some of the issues they have might be a little bit bigger. you know, costs are very different here than they are on the east coast and the west coast. you know, it it

is what it is. labor force changes, you know, I mean you immigration obviously is a huge hot button topic right now, whether it's just people talking or whether you want to politicize it, it is I mean no no. I don't understand it. I'm just I'm just saying that there's a lot that comes with that. But certainly in different area you know different areas of the United States, the immigration force is very different. Especially in, you know, Wisconsin, our build cycle is not year it is year round, right? But

Brad Herda (: 23:31

Not a political show, so we're not gonna go there.

Toby V (: 23:48

you know, we we do hots and colds. You go to some place where they can pour concrete year round without having to worry about it, where you can dig holes and do all that kind of stuff without worrying about frost hips. Like I mean it's it's it's huge. so you know, i if you're in if you're in Texas and you can just build, build, build, build, build and you only have to worry about a handful of rain days in a year, it changes your labor force. when you're working outside. It just is what it is. you know and and you know in Wisconsin you

pouring concrete and you're putting in different accelerators and stuff to try and pour in cold weather, you don't have to deal with that. So some of the expenses change when you can do it, I guess, more economically, if we want to call it that, in other places of the world. so you know, yeah, there are people that that don't like, you know, don't like Wisconsin weather. Well, you're not gonna work in twenty below zero and go and help frame a house if you don't really love framing.

Brad Herda (: 24:40

Right. So so I'm gonna ask you this as Toby, not as executive officer. So we're gonna separate that out so that our listeners and or if any other members of the association are paying attention. This is gonna be Toby's opinion, not that representing that of the association. If you had your It might it might be, but it I'm gonna take I'm prefacing it that we don't want it there potentially as you drink my diet Cokes.

Toby V (: 24:57

How do you know it's the same thing though?

Toby V (: 25:04

Fair enough. Mm-hmm.

Brad Herda (: 25:08

If you had your magic wand to be able to change something in the industry for a greater impact, for a more sustainable workforce opportunity, cost control, whatever, whatever it is. You had your magic wand, what would be the magic wand thing? Because I know you care about this industry. You are one of the most passionate people I've ever seen care about the industry as a whole. And

see all the different things and all the different pieces. You have a way to connect those dots and bring the context together that a lot of folks are only so narrowly focused on their own problem. You have the ability to see wider than that. So what's your magic wand item to to make the industry?

Toby V (: 25:53

That is a great question. And honestly, Brad, whether it's the EO or whether it's Toby talking, the are the building industry as a whole is struggling because it's a death by a thousand cuts. And there is no way to say, here's the one thing. It's that is such a struggle. yes, it's it's labor, it's ridiculous fees, it's permits, it's delays, it's it's everything.

There is there are so many factors in it, but if you could try and make it a little easier, something has happened in the industry as a whole where and and maybe this is even this isn't just specific to the to the billing industry. It is professional builders, people that do this for a living, are constantly being questioned by people that watch HGTV, that are constantly

being poked about are you doing that right? Did you put that nail in the right way? Are you sure you're using that hammer? Aren't you supposed to use the client? You know, I saw the Property Brothers night name drop, right? Like I I i I saw them do this thing and and Mike Holmes did this whatever. And you builded these standards and all of this whatever. And it it is man, it is an uphill battle. It is really, really difficult. I used to refer to bad contractors as the kind of contractor. And I don't know what to talk about when you have a a bad client that, God, they're just a pain in the ass.

There is something that has happened in in the world where we don't we we can't trust anybody. And certainly when you were building a house and it caught you know 50 years ago and it cost $40,000 was a lot of money. And you wrote on the back of a napkin, you're gonna build me a house and I'm gonna buy all the product from Sears and it's gonna show up on a truck and I'm gonna put it together and I'm done. And somebody moves into the house and they are happy and they are blessed.

And they get to raise their family and they get to have a dog out in the yard and the American dream is there. And my God, this is wonderful. And then something happened. And all of a sudden, the American dream isn't that. And and people don't can't just be glad they're getting a beautiful new home. No, no, you didn't do that right. that thing is crooked. I don't like the way that I don't like the how that color turned out. Can you repaint it for free? Well, what are you crazy?

Toby V (: 28:12

So there's there's something that has occurred. And yes, there are some common contractors out there, but right? But but having something where you believe it and you actually you actually can understand that, yep, we're gonna try and do this together and we're gonna try and build this house and that we're gonna all work together from the person that built the product, that drove the truck, that delivered to the site, the material suppliers, the subcontractors, the general contractor, the homeowner, the l mortgage lender, that

Everybody's in this together to try and make a beautiful new home for a family to live in. Wow, can't we kind of figure out how to do that without constantly pointing fingers? And you didn't do it right. And my dad says, my dad is an expert because he worked in the industry as a truck driver and he knows how confident it was. And you, you know, it feels like you are constantly combative. Man, it is it is it is too.

Brad Herda (: 28:58

twenty five twenty five years ago. Right. I I like that. I like that take a lot, Toby. That is awesome.

Toby V (: 29:09

It is too combative. Why does it cost that much? Well, because it costs that much. Well, can't you just knock some money off of it? Well, sure if I don't want to feed my kids. Are you w who's supposed to take the hit on that? Because things cost what they cost. And I have overhead, and yes, I have profit and I have to run my business and I'm taking all of the risk. But you want it cheaper? Because what? I mean I Brad in the times that I was doing projects.

One of the times you get the most irritated is when somebody nickel and dimes you, literally is nickel dime every single decision, every and it's their decisions. My God, you pick the color paint, you pick the quality of paint, you pick the countertops you wanted. And then you find out after you're done, after they've nickel and dimed you down. And it's it's your money that the nickel and diamond, not the not the countertop. Countertop costs what it's gonna cost. Paint's gonna cost what it's gonna cost. So you lose money now.

And then you find out after the fact they go and hire somebody to do some low voltage and put a giant TV in and they drop fifty grand on a new TV setup. And you go, What what? You took you took five hundred dollars out of a contract just so that I could get the contract. And then find out that now you're spending all this extra because of the things that you want versus the things you needed? Completely unfair. So there you go. There's there's Toby's take. That wasn't the EO. That's it, that's Toby's take.

Brad Herda (: 30:20

and

That that's good. And and that's and I think some of that just becomes the the cost of the product, the cost of building of the things that you don't see or use, right? You don't see or use the frame, you don't see or use the foundation, you don't see or use all the wiring on the inside, you don't see and use your rafters, you don't see and use all your floor joys systems, you don't see you use them all, but that's not that's not tangible and tactical, right? When you've got sixty five percent of your home.

cost and the shit that you have no control over essentially. and yet you want all the bells and whistles, well then you gotta right that's the that's to me the that's where the problem exists, potentially.

Toby V (: 31:07

For sure. And I think when you when you think about in the building industry, in in anything where you have so many parts and pieces, it's automotive industry, look at all the parts that go into a car. If you ask somebody what goes into a good sandwich or what goes into a soup, they know how to put a sandwich together. They know how to make a bowl of soup. You put these 40 ingredients together and you do all these things and you show it some love and you get this magical thing at the end, but they understand it.

Certainly when you're spending a million dollars on a house that has a lot of parts and pieces you can't see, you you know what the finished product is, you know what you want to live in, but you have no idea how to get there. You have no idea of the months and months and months of time and energy and labor it goes into build that thing. You assume, well, I saw it on TV and they did it in a week. Move that bus, I get to see my brand new house, and it only cost me $27. Well, that is not reality TV, because reality TV is not real. This is reality.

And it's not. But the until going and getting a can of chunky soup at the grocery store costs $100,000. People will take for granted that I spent $2 and I got a can of soup. Well, you can't spend two dollars and get a brand new home. Nah, it's like $250. Watch for it to go on sale. Houses don't go on sale like that. That's not how it works.

Brad Herda (: 32:15

Well you can't spend two dollars and get a can of soup anymore either.

Right. You gotta watch for the sale, gotta get the coupon. No, they don't. All right. rapid fire questions here, Toby. Dump dumbest thing you ever heard in a meeting.

Toby V (: 32:28

Shoot.

my you talk.

Brad Herda (: 32:33

Thank you. I appreciate you. Love you too. you've got a time machine. What year are you going back to and why?

Toby V (: 32:41

that's that rapid fire. honestly I'm gonna say about nineteen fifty five and I wanna meet my my mom and dad when they were kids to know if I am really the re if if I need to apologize more than I do or if they were lousy children.

Brad Herda (: 32:47

Don't overthink it.

Brad Herda (: 33:00

Okay, beer or bourbon. Coffee or energy drink. Go to curse word.

Toby V (: 33:02

Bourbon.

Coffee.

Toby V (: 33:08

Yep.

Brad Herda (: 33:09

Really? Okay. Interesting. That's like number four on our list.

Toby V (: 33:12

Yeah. Yeah, 'cause I I I'd F bomb, but on in all honesty, that one I I use pretty much when I'm at work and that's it. But shit I use all the

Brad Herda (: 33:21

Okay, fair. This is gonna be a hard one. Favorite candy. This is gonna be a difficult one because Toby has a candy fetish.

Toby V (: 33:30

So let's not make this weird, Brad. let's be clear. I have a problem not with candy, but I have a problem with limited edition, new edition, new flavor, one time only kind of a thing. So if it is a funky flavor, new something, it's that.

Brad Herda (: 33:32

Yeah.

Brad Herda (: 33:47

Those bomb pop those bomb pop Oreo cookies are freaking delicious, dude.

Toby V (: 33:51

There's there's still a few left. Look here right here in my death. There you go. I think and and that's just it. But the best way I can describe that, right, is that Nacho Doritos, Ben they've done that. Courage Doritos, Ben they've done that. You gotta try stuff that's new, something different. It's why I don't pick my own food when I go out to eat. Bring me something, feed me, I don't care what it is, I wanna try something new and different. So just roll the dice and play relate.

Brad Herda (: 33:54

great. good.

Brad Herda (: 34:15

Okay. Text or call.

Toby V (: 34:18

called

Brad Herda (: 34:21

Early bird or night owl. Favorite tool literally or metaphorically?

Toby V (: 34:23

Night owl

Toby V (: 34:27

Ooh, damn. anything that was cordless or pneumatic.

Brad Herda (: 34:32

What was in today's lunchbox?

Toby V (: 34:34

I don't eat lunch. Oreo cookies. Oreo cookies.

Brad Herda (: 34:37

All right. dream job as a kid.

Toby V (: 34:42

probably want to be a firefighter.

Brad Herda (: 34:45

Okay. this'll be interesting. Most overused phrase at work.

Toby V (: 34:51

my god. I'm not answering that 'cause the ladies that work on my team very possibly will hear this. So no, I will tell nope. I will say it's one of my favorite things to tell everybody. that we chase world class. So we say that a lot around.

Brad Herda (: 34:58

Pass.

Brad Herda (: 35:08

Okay. Best pizza topping.

Toby V (: 35:11

All of them. More pizza.

Brad Herda (: 35:14

Okay. Favorite TV show to binge.

Toby V (: 35:20

so many shows, probably big bang theory.

Brad Herda (: 35:25

Okay. favorite movie quote.

Toby V (: 35:30

boy. Do it have to be a quote. Can it just be my my favorite something? I've got a picture of it. You can see it. It's right it's right here. Can you see that picture? It's where Darth Vader's choking a guy. But if can I grab I'm gonna read it? Hold on there. Here. Total totally unorthodox to grab something in your office, right? No, we're supposed to do it. This is it's my favorite part of Star Wars was when Darth Vader's losing his cool during a staff meeting and starts choking a coworker. So I'm just saying that's my

Brad Herda (: 35:49

Mm-hmm.

Brad Herda (: 35:59

Fair enough. favorite music?

Toby V (: 36:03

anything on the radio that's not rap 'cause that's poetry, not music.

Brad Herda (: 36:07

Favorite sport?

Toby V (: 36:08

hockey all day.

Brad Herda (: 36:10

Bucketless vacation location.

Toby V (: 36:13

I already did both of Hawaii and Alaskan cruise and I've been lucky enough to do both. But I'd love to go back to to both.

Brad Herda (: 36:21

Okay. living or dead, who would you want to have conversation with?

Toby V (: 36:25

God, it's awesome. I'd love to be able to talk to my both of my grandfathers. One I never met. He died decades before I was born. And then my other grandfather I'd love to be able to talk to him about now, because his head would be absolutely spinning.

Brad Herda (: 36:44

Okay. Ginger or Marianne.

Toby V (: 36:47

my god, Mary Ann all day.

Brad Herda (: 36:52

So people

Toby V (: 36:53

And by the way, I love you, Dan. Just saying, that's my wife. Shut up.

Brad Herda (: 36:58

All right. So people want to talk to you about the Builders Association, about things that are going on, about anything in general. How do people find you, Toby? Where do they get a hold of you? How do they connect with you?

Toby V (: 37:09

Metropolitan Build Association, you can go to MBA builds.org. You'll find the association. You can find me there. I am on LinkedIn. you can find me there too. But you know, certainly there's a lot of great people. We represent 700 member companies across southeastern Wisconsin. But the building industry industry, I mean, talk about GDP, talk about the impact it makes on people's world. The the building construction industry is is hugely important for everybody.

It it doesn't matter who you are. So show some love to your general contractors, to your your suppliers, the people working at the big box stores or the guy that's gonna come out and do work for you. you know, it there's so many people out there that we need to keep this world moving and make safe places for you to live. just go out and hug a contractor. That's all I'm gonna say.

Toby V (: 38:04

Did I make you speechless, Brad? Holy crap.

Brad Herda (: 38:05

I just I just do okay, that might be the episode title. that's a possibility. That's a possibility. Toby, thank you for all of your leadership, all of your support, all of the things you do here locally for our association, for our members, and and the fact that you care so much about the impact that we have on people's lives is truly meaningful.

Toby V (: 38:13

We'll take it. Hug a contractor. Hmm?

Brad Herda (: 38:33

And that's why I think there's alignment between yourself and and myself and what I like to do for for my l line of work and for the show and for all those things. So thank you very much, sir. I appreciate all you do.

Toby V (: 38:44

Well thank you very much. You're a great member, Brad, and we'll keep putting up with you. So keep coming back and keep doing all the great work you do too.

Brad Herda (: 38:51

More Diet Cokes, please.

Toby V (: 38:53

You got it.