Hustle and Grind: Mark Knudsen is Popping His Future

Steven Doyle [: 00:00:00

Welcome to Blue Collar BS, a podcast that busts the popular myth that we can't find good people, highlighting how the different generations of today, the boomers, Gen X, millennials and Gen Z, are redefining work so that the industrial revolution that started in the US stays in the US.

Steven Doyle [: 00:00:21

The Blue Collar BS podcast helps blue collar business owners like you build a business that'll thrive for decades to come by turning that blue collar bullshit into some blue collar business solutions.

Brad Herda [: 00:00:32

In this episode, you're going to learn about hiring with coaching in mind, about the flexibility with scheduling, family versus corporate. An open mind enhances the hustle and the grind. And three traits to look for when hiring.

Brad Herda [: 00:00:49

Our guest today is Mark Knutzen, an elder millennial who understands hustle and grind are keys to long term success and supports that work and family balance for his staff and his self. We hope you enjoy this show.

Brad Herda [: 00:01:01

Welcome back to blue collar BS, Brad. How are you doing today, my friend?

Brad Herda [: 00:01:05

It is a spectacular day in the neighborhood, Mr. Doyle. I don't even need a sweater or anything to be in Mr. Rogers neighborhood this weekend, so it'll be an awesome weekend.

Brad Herda [: 00:01:15

That's great. That's great. Hey, so before we get interrupted, who do we got on the show today?

Brad Herda [: 00:01:21

We have on the show today Mr. Mark Knutzen. I'll call him a wild west entrepreneur as he has a lot of ideas, a lot of things, a lot of moving parts. He has created this awesome brand with the Pops kettle corn brand here locally, working on that regional and soon to be national level. Has a marketplace for different community events. Also has a pub and bar and restaurant. The guy's a hustle and a grinder. Has an entertainment district that he's got a vision for, et cetera.

Brad Herda [: 00:01:51

So welcome to the show, Mr. Mark Knutson.

Steven Doyle [: 00:01:54

Thanks for having me. I appreciate it. You're speaking some big shoes to fill on this one. So we roll on that bad boy.

Brad Herda [: 00:02:04

That'll be okay. And we hear the child in the background, which is great. So why we get into our show, which generation do you best fit in with?

Steven Doyle [: 00:02:13

So this is a funny, uh, Eliza Sheshinger does one. It's a comedian style, but she is an elder millennial, and that's what I would be considered as well. Millennial kind of elder. Yeah, I'm at the top of the list there.

Brad Herda [: 00:02:29

Awesome. It's all relative, Mark, just so you am. You're not as elder as I, just so you know that.

Brad Herda [: 00:02:35

I know, Boomer.

Brad Herda [: 00:02:37

Yeah. Not quite right on the cusp, but not quite there. Mr. Stephen Doyle. So Mark, how do you go from a PE, physical educating guy, teaching, mentoring to popcorn and bar and restaurant and as you called it, Carney lifestyle?

Steven Doyle [: 00:03:02

Carney lifestyle, yeah. Actually, it's a pretty short road, not going to lie. When it came to education, loved education. Got into it. Got into it with the. A little bit of a higher level when it comes to athletic directing and our athletic directing. And the fun part about that was mostly to do with branding. And I really kind of fell in love with the opportunity to help brand our entire athletic program when I was in Norway, actually.

Mark [: 00:03:30

So we were the Vikings and the Vikings, weird Norway Vikings, I know, right? Very generic name, but it was an international school, so they had to hold on to something there. But I started falling in love with the opportunity of making logos and combining the local history with the brand of whatever they were in within that community. So that was my most kind of fun part of it. Gosh, it even goes back to college. But branding was fun and when it comes to businesses and everything like that, just kind of fell right into it because I love the hustle, but I also love the ability to brand and make those decisions for a brand. So that's kind of where it got to. My dad not super happy that I was making quote unquote, decisions for the brand because he started this whole thing in 2009 and I took it over on Facebook and started branding it in 2010 or eleven, I will say. And I started managing his Facebook.

Steven Doyle [: 00:04:35

And then quickly did I realize while I was going to take a quick break between teaching, I was like, yeah, I'll just go be a carney for like a couple of months. Go make some know it'll be nice and simple. And then it came into like, oh, crap. We kind of created a huge brand here and now everybody wants it all the time. So now I've got to create a brick and mortar. And then we went from brick and mortar to another brick and mortar to another brick and mortar to the full on grind and hustle of going to events all the time.

Brad Herda [: 00:05:08

So where did the pub on Pioneer come out of the mix? How did that get started? Out of a popcorn business.

Steven Doyle [: 00:05:17

It was the third generation of what we, fourth generation, I will say, actually. So the first generation was obviously the kettle corn style. Then we went from kettle corn into this thought process that we could do something in Waukesha, Wisconsin, that was going to be called five Points brewing suites. And it was based very loosely but also altogether with.

Brad Herda [: 00:05:41

That was you on the corner.

Steven Doyle [: 00:05:44

That was us on the corner.

Brad Herda [: 00:05:45

Oh, wow. That didn't last very long. It was a great idea.

Steven Doyle [: 00:05:51

It lasted as long as it needed to. We'll say it lasted as long as the lease did. We'll go with actually more than that. So we got into that with another business partner, which ended up kind of falling apart pretty quickly. Within, like, six months, they wanted to get paid out, and it just didn't make sense for us to leave the space. So my wife, now girlfriend at the time, fiance, thank God, because she basically had to go down there and do all of the hard work to keep five points brewing suites rolling until February of 2020. Our lease was up, and we decided not to renew without understanding what was about to happen to this entire choice.

Brad Herda [: 00:06:37

Good choice.

Steven Doyle [: 00:06:38

Yeah. That basically kind of faltered into us with 2020 happening going into the marketplace. So pops marketplace was conceived out of the pandemic. We lost a massive amount of events, all the Carneys did. And we tried to figure out how we could kind of close the gap a little bit. So we created a space that was called Pops Marketplace, and it basically was the home for all of these vendors that didn't have a home or places to go. And that just kind of blew up on us in a very good way. It was a very successful move for the sole purpose of we found the community wanted to rally around and make sure that they supported these local businesses.

Steven Doyle [: 00:07:26

So that was huge. That was generation three into generation four at the marketplace. A good budy of mine who worked in restaurants didn't have anywhere to really go, so we said, screw it. Why don't you come on over? Let's do some smoked meats and sell them by the pound. They're awesome. They're fantastic. So let's do it. And then an opportunity to take over a local bar came up and we jumped on it and went for that.

Steven Doyle [: 00:07:53

And now that was all within, like, seven years. Everything I just said, that's crazy.

Brad Herda [: 00:08:02

When I look at the LinkedIn timeline, it's like, wow, so slow is not in your vocabulary in any way, shape, or form. And as an elder millennial, that is not normal. I will just say that that is definitely out hustling many of your generation. As you've gone through your hiring practices and gone through all these different types of events and all these things, how are you finding either the younger millennials or the Gen Z's or even the Xers like myself or boomers supporting you, or being able to work with you and understand and be able to execute what you need them to do on a daily basis is there anything there that you see difference wise?

Steven Doyle [: 00:08:43

The glaring, obvious part is the boomers, yourself included. You guys are some hard workers, man. Talk about grinders. I do not have to train somebody like yourself to do anything because they just consistently keep moving all the just. It's too easy to hire.

Brad Herda [: 00:09:04

Way too much fun here.

Steven Doyle [: 00:09:05

Mark, is he.

Brad Herda [: 00:09:06

Yeah. Oh, yeah.

Brad Herda [: 00:09:08

I'm just loving the fact you keep calling him a boomer over and over again. It's just great. Well, him being a boomer, yeah, he is a very experienced gen xer.

Brad Herda [: 00:09:21

Wow. Continue on with your story, Mark. Old guys, old girls don't have to train them. Got it. Check that box.

Steven Doyle [: 00:09:30

They're rocking and rolling like they're the easy ones. They get in there and they keep rolling. But honestly, I think that also as an educator brings myself into who we hire and how we hire, I'm much more happy to hire a person that is capable of honestly just working or at least being open to that coaching aspect. And I'll take that to my PE style. You can read those people pretty well, and we've been able to. Yes, there have been in and outs, but there are so many times that you can find these people, and even the young ones, there are certain opportunities that they just want to work, and you just got to give them an opportunity to not only work, but feel validated. And in doing all those kind of things, whether it's bagging, whether it's being a server at the pub, no matter what, they just mostly want to be validated. So when it comes to employee people, any generation is great.

Steven Doyle [: 00:10:27

It's the personality. You'll find your exceptionals out there. Question is, are you the type of business or the type of leader that attracts those exceptionals? Because we found some very good people to work with.

Brad Herda [: 00:10:41

So let's break that. If you don't mind. Can we kind of peel that onion a little bit? So when you're looking for some, a new hire, can you elaborate a little bit more on what are the traits that you're looking for that help you identify what those go getters, those hustlers are that would best fit your business?

Steven Doyle [: 00:11:01

Yeah, I mean, there are three things that I really full on look for. The first one is communication. If they are pursuing via text or if they're pursuing via email, how is that text and or email written? You're going to find a lot about a personality right off the bat, and that's something that I always appreciate.

Brad Herda [: 00:11:21

Your GM abbreviations. Who the fuck's the GM? What? Oh, it's good morning. Great.

Steven Doyle [: 00:11:28

You know who I got that from, right? That's Dino, man. Dino has taught me that every time he's ever text me my lawyer, it's always GM mark. And I'm like, good morning.

Brad Herda [: 00:11:41

Really? What the hell is this? I don't. Oh, it's good morning. I'm like, who's GMJ? I have no idea who GMJ is, but. Oh, it's good morning, Jay. It's good morning. So and so I learned something. So the old guys can be taught.

Steven Doyle [: 00:11:54

Whether you use it or not, now is the question correct? So, yeah, I really appreciate good communication. That's something that you can't necessarily teach too much once they get into the workforce. That's always something that I think can be told, but it takes a special person to really take the time to communicate positively and correctly. And I continue to work on it as well. But that's definitely something that's always good. And then the next one is honestly just personality as a start. Once we communicate, get them in. I usually like to do working interviews.

Steven Doyle [: 00:12:37

Within three minutes, I'll know if I'm going to hire you or not. So let's just do a working interview. Let's get you in for two, 3 hours, see how you mesh, see how you ask questions. I love questions. When you first come in, anytime a kid that's 14 or 15 years old will approach the owner or somebody of a management status and ask a question, I'm like, that's fantastic. Those are one of my favorite things because it's showing that they are okay not knowing but also want to learn. And then the last one just comes down to overall busyness. I'm going to call it busyness.

Steven Doyle [: 00:13:18

Not necessarily that they have to stay busy, meaning, like, doing pointless tasks, but they're not okay just sitting there behind a counter, behind a register, scrolling or whatever. Correct. I like the busyness, and you can find that within the first hour of somebody working, because at some point when they're doing that working interview, I didn't direct them what to do. And then it's actually a point of mine not to direct them what to do and just let them kind of see, like, what are they going to do with this? Five minutes, are they going to go clean something or are they going to come and ask me the question? Those kind of things, if you can.

Brad Herda [: 00:13:56

Lean, you can clean.

Steven Doyle [: 00:13:58

Yeah. Although you may think these are dirty, we're very clean here when it comes to food.

Brad Herda [: 00:14:05

Yeah.

Brad Herda [: 00:14:05

You have to be right. There's regulations, there's inspectors, there's all sorts of fun things.

Steven Doyle [: 00:14:10

It's a cool way to actually teach a lot of people, too, is that food source we kind of have. And I'll take this from the athletics that you just kind of said that, but the athletics, you know how they have certain tiers where it's like, oh, the young feeder teams, right. Everybody starts off at the popcorn company because it is so strict when it comes down to glove up, wash your hands, keep your hair up, all of those kind of things. If you can't follow that, you're probably not going to be a good fit serving in the kitchen or anything else like that at a higher volume. So we can teach them that at a 14, 1516 year old. And that gets ingrained with them very quickly. So it's kind of like a feeder station as well.

Brad Herda [: 00:14:52

So knowing you have some, we're talking about the 14, 1516 year olds. So some younger, I'll say some younger hires.

Steven Doyle [: 00:15:01

They're Gen Z's.

Brad Herda [: 00:15:02

They're Gen Z's. So what is your level of attrition with that generation compared to somebody like Brad's generation?

Steven Doyle [: 00:15:13

My take on employee turnovers is really kind of dependent on the aspect that a lot of bars, restaurants, popcorn shops will say don't necessarily have the ability to offer insurance. So you have to think like, our person out the door is probably around 25. So by the time they hit 25, they're doing what they're meant to be doing, whether it be their education or they just want to move on so that they can get insurance. So we have a very tight frame of like ten years when it comes down to that. Overall, how fast do they actually move out? Not a lot of them. We usually retain your 14s all the way through high school. They will come back when it comes to 18 to 22. If they're going to go to college, they decide not to go to college.

Steven Doyle [: 00:16:02

They'll usually stick around and do seasonal work. Or I try and get them over to the pub because we can give them more hours throughout the week that aren't necessarily full time hours, but it's some extra cash. My biggest fear, I would say, is because of only being around for seven years, we really don't have a massive amount. But that 25 year mark is something that I'm currently working on trying to figure out how we can offer insurance, how we can offer education for them to start investing and be attractive for those people that I really appreciate being around, want to keep around, want to try and make sure we kind of do that. So 14 and 15 year olds, I mean, depends on the wind, man. Sometimes it'll blow east and they're gone. Blow west and they come back. I've had so many people leave to go to like a Coles corporate or something like that.

Steven Doyle [: 00:16:55

And they're like, they told me I had to work on a such and such night. And you're like, yeah, that's corporate. If you don't work, they're going to find somebody else that does. And they're like, yeah, but you kind of gave us off when we needed to. Yup. That's what a family run business is. If you need off for the weekend because you're gone, we understand that and I'll acknowledge that. And we've got extra people to come in.

Steven Doyle [: 00:17:19

So it's one of those where it's also that enlightenment, I would say, what kind of employee do you want? You want one that really has the family values. So if we can really instill that, we do keep a lot of people around for a good amount of time.

Brad Herda [: 00:17:33

No, and that's a great point that you just brought up is the key difference between larger corporate style businesses versus family and the true need to be open minded about what the employee needs are to help maximize when they can work. And so kudos to you for recognizing that with the employees that you have.

Steven Doyle [: 00:17:53

Yeah, and I've got to chalk that up to my educator background. It's not normally like that, especially in a restaurant, especially some other things. But I will chuck. A lot of what I try and do is make a foundationally comfortable space for employees, although I need you to do a job if you're better off, if you're mentally stable, if you need a conversation, we've got a couple of people even right now going through at a younger age, I think, 1819. Some people are going through life changing events within their life. And I'm talking things that I've never actually had to deal with myself. So the support level there is very important on a personal level as much as it is a professional, in my.

Brad Herda [: 00:18:40

Opinion, and being there to support them, not to tell them no, you have to be here and you can't deal with that. That is dramatically different. And having those leadership qualities and traits is really important. You learn that through maturity and you learn that through opportunity. You learn that as you go through life. And kudos to you for having that compassion. And like you said, it may be coming from your educator background and those type of things, but you are very focused on family. And like you said before we came in, you went to the zoo today to spend time with the family.

Brad Herda [: 00:19:11

Then you're doing our show here right now, and you got a gig to go through tonight. When you text me earlier today, you're like, hey, I'm going to the zoo with the kids. I'm going to the zoo's family.

Steven Doyle [: 00:19:22

Cool.

Brad Herda [: 00:19:22

I know that's a point in time where you're not going to worry about anything else along the way because you're with your family and you really do a good job of compartmentalizing that. Maybe not as often as somebody to your other side of you may like at times, but at least when you make that time, you do make the time and you commit. So kudos to you and your employees, I think see that and recognize it. And it gives some of those younger individuals an aspirational opportunity to go through life with those types of leadership qualities that they may not have exposure to through other types of jobs.

Steven Doyle [: 00:19:53

Yeah, I like that part. Is anytime that I have an opportunity to teach within the job as well, sometimes it's even financial. Some of these younger kids that are looking at mountains of debt as they graduate college, there still is an opportunity to teach them, maybe try and encourage them to maybe be a bit more mindful on the saving aspect. Just because I put myself there and they're like, oh, you feel so successful and such. Well, if I knew what I knew when I was 22, my Roth ira would have been absolutely maxed out before I went and bought know. It's certain things like that that I would hope that their parents are teaching them. But it always feels good to hear it and know it from somebody else as. So you got to be an advocate on those sides.

Brad Herda [: 00:20:45

So I have this bag of the best popcorn in our region. This pops popcorn that you so kindly produce for our world and for our liking. I have this party mix here, right? It's kettle caramel and chocolate kettle corn. It's a great mix. I enjoy it immensely. So you do a lot of flavors. I just need to know what is the worst idea you've had from a popcorn flavor?

Steven Doyle [: 00:21:12

That's awesome. What's the worst idea?

Brad Herda [: 00:21:17

What's the thing you tried that was.

Brad Herda [: 00:21:18

Just like, hell no.

Steven Doyle [: 00:21:20

We tried to do a lemon. Lemon at the heat that we do it at is really bad. When citric acid gets to a certain point. And I talked to a scientist about this and it just tastes like I've never tasted it, actually, so tastes like absolute garbage. So it's one of those. Yeah, it's horrible. I don't even know what to say. So we tried it several different ways.

Brad Herda [: 00:21:49

So what you're saying is we're not going to have lifesavers popcorn anytime soon or skittles popcorn anytime soon.

Steven Doyle [: 00:21:55

Well, we do have some fruity flavors.

Brad Herda [: 00:21:58

The lemon unicorn mix, I will say the unicorn mix by far is my favorite. My wife hates it, but the unicorn mix is my favorite. It is delicious.

Steven Doyle [: 00:22:07

The lemon is the hard part.

Brad Herda [: 00:22:09

Okay. So no seven up soda, no seven up flavors. Hard to make some mixed drinks out of that. I know you got the Bloody Mary mix.

Steven Doyle [: 00:22:17

Red hot. I was going to say, too, because red hot, I don't even know what red hot tastes like. It's like big red bubble gum. Right? But what does it actually taste like? And it's cinnamon. But it's not cinnamon because cinnamon, to me is a different type of cinnamon. So it's a hot cinnamon. So we tried it with cinnamon and cayenne pepper. That didn't work out well.

Brad Herda [: 00:22:42

It just sensed ICE burning.

Brad Herda [: 00:22:45

Right. So people want to learn about your flavors, see your flavors, try your flavors, or get a hold of you to learn how you have created your hiring process, or just to learn in general about your hustle and grind and entrepreneurship. Where do people find you? Where do they get a hold of you? How do they get in your world?

Steven Doyle [: 00:23:08

Orderpops.com is the best way to go. You can go check out all those funky flavors. We do a lot with community, so we always look for fundraising opportunities. We love to support anybody that's looking to raise money for anything. You can find all that stuff on there. We continue just to kind of push the envelope and have a lot of fun with it. So not only just, hey, check out these flavors. Hey, Mark, I've got an idea for these flavors.

Steven Doyle [: 00:23:35

Those are the fun conversations to always have. During January, we do a Super popcorn bowl and we get everybody to submit all of the craziest flavors that they want, and then we whittle it down to four that we actually make, and then we give those out as samples to all of our VIPs and stuff, and they tell us which one is the best and that becomes our popcorn for the year. Oh, cool.

Brad Herda [: 00:24:03

That's awesome.

Brad Herda [: 00:24:04

Okay.

Steven Doyle [: 00:24:05

Yeah, it's a fun.

Brad Herda [: 00:24:06

You big LinkedIn guy at all. Do you have an email address?

Steven Doyle [: 00:24:09

Email address? Mark. Mark at the. Kind of like the Ohio State, but not Ohio State because I'm a Wisconsin fan. So Mark, at the popskettlecorn.com, it was way cheaper as a domain name. Just saying.

Brad Herda [: 00:24:28

It's great.

Brad Herda [: 00:24:30

We appreciate you taking time in between family time and getting ready for a gig tonight to come on. Share your experiences. So awesome.

Brad Herda [: 00:24:40

That's awesome.

Steven Doyle [: 00:24:41

Thank you guys. Appreciate it. Cheers.

Brad Herda [: 00:24:45

Thank you for listening to blue collar Bs brought to you by visionforward business solutions and professional business Coaching, Inc. If you'd like to learn more on today's topic, just reach out to Steve Doyle or myself, Brad Herda. Please, like share, rate and review this show as feedback is the only way we can get better. Let's keep blue collar businesses strong for generations to come.