Episode 98
Story Time
Welcome back to another episode of Blue Collar BS, where we delve deep intoworkforce dynamics across various generations.
Today, we're exploring real-world challenges and solutions in maintaining a thriving blue-collar workforce amidst changing generational values and expectations.
Brad, shares a compelling story about a recent board meeting scenario involving a family-owned business navigating the tricky waters of generational turnover, differing work ethics, and the critical need for clear communication and respect in the workplace.
Join us as we break down these complex issues with practical insights and experiences that underline the importance of adapting workplace culture to foster understanding and productivity across all ages.
Whether you're managing a team, part of a family business, or interested in workplace dynamics, this episode is packed with valuable lessons on creating a cohesive and efficient work environment.
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Transcript
Welcome to Blue Collar B's, a podcast that busts the popular myth that we can't find good people, highlighting how the different generations of today, the boomers, Gen X, millennials and Gen Z, are redefining work so that the industrial revolution that started in the US stays in the US.
Brad Herda [:Welcome back to another episode of Blue Collar B's. I am Brad. My co host is dying right now. Oh, my gosh.
Steven Doyle [:As he is not to make me laugh right now, is sitting into a.
Brad Herda [:Coughing jag because he's got the winter cold going on.
Steven Doyle [:Oh, my gosh. Thanks for that.
Brad Herda [:Who are you? I'm sorry, what's your name?
Steven Doyle [:Oh, my name? Coughing Steve.
Brad Herda [:Coughing Steve.
Steven Doyle [:Coughing Steve.
Brad Herda [:Hey.
Brad Herda [:Welcome back to the second winter as we are here, opening weekend of the NCAA tournament, and we've got five inches of snow sitting here in the.
Steven Doyle [:I know, it's been amazing. I love it. Even had some, you know, some great bracket busters already happening. Fantastic.
Brad Herda [:It's like, really? Why? You know, golf last week and now it's.
Steven Doyle [:No, I know, right?
Brad Herda [:Pissed me off.
Steven Doyle [:Absolutely not.
Brad Herda [:Fun. So before the show, we started talking about different things, and I guess this episode is going to be some storytelling about some generational things. So this just happened to me yesterday. And for our listeners, you can imagine. So let's set the stage. We have a family business. They have a product that they manufacture. It's a fab weld shop.
Brad Herda [:You know, pick one out of the thousands that are around the country, right? Family owned mom and dad, two sons. Mom and dad are working their way out, and we're working through that transition phase of that business. And we finally had their first, we'll call it official board meeting types. They've had board meetings before, but not like a board meeting where you actually follow an agenda and talk about things and present data. So we're having this board meeting. We're going through it. The son, who's the president's doing a really good job running the agenda, making sure that he's prepared. I was very impressed with what he did.
Brad Herda [:And we got to the HR section.
Steven Doyle [:And we're talking HR section, the pesky.
Brad Herda [:HR section of the. Of the agenda. And, yep, you know, they showed us they had 1010 people leave the organization. They hired 18, so net gain of eight, and then they got two and two this year, so net of zero. And we're like, okay, I'm like, you need to come up with a turnover, a goal that you need to have for a turnover percentage, knowing that you're going to have some. And the father of the boomer generation's like, well, I wouldn't count those in the turnover number. Some of those in the turnover number. Those are some of those kids that just.
Brad Herda [:They showed up one day and they didn't come back. I'm like, no, huh?
Brad Herda [:Wait a minute.
Brad Herda [:Like, hang on. No, that's still. That's still turnover if you really need him there. And they were only here for a day, and they left. That's still churn and turnover. And it costs you money to do that. So, no, we need to have those numbers in there. And then we got into a whole conversation of younger guys, Gen Z's, younger millennials, as to how they don't want to work, and they don't.
Brad Herda [:They don't want to follow the rules. The rules of, you know, you're here.
Brad Herda [:That's.
Brad Herda [:You know, we started six. Six.
Steven Doyle [:Yep.
Brad Herda [:Start time is at six, which means you're here at 530, getting ready and not walking in at 06:08 because the line at quick trip or Starbucks was just too long this morning. So you're in late, and then all the old guys get pissed off, and.
Brad Herda [:Yep.
Brad Herda [:It's like, oh, my gosh. Which led into some very interesting conversations over setting expectations and knowing what is what. And, you know, mom and dad are both like, well, the rules are the rules. And if you can't follow the rules. The funny part was that mom and dad were late for the board meeting by 15 minutes.
Steven Doyle [:Weird. Okay.
Brad Herda [:I'm like, huh?
Brad Herda [:Really interesting. So we kind of turn that around. It's like, okay, what's going on here? But, you know, that conversation of setting expectations for staff members and trying to create an opportunity, and the question was asked, well, what do you need to do to make those things happen? And, like, well, you need to give them a sense of purpose. Help them understand why they're there every day. What value are they bringing to the organization? Show them what it can look like. And not have all of the old timers be pains in the ass to the young kids, because the hazing, the treating like shit, the lack of respect is just not good.
Brad Herda [:But.
Steven Doyle [:So let's. So let's talk about that right there. So the lack of respect from those that are experienced to those that come in late, right? Let's say you come in late or come in haphazardly or whatever. Whatever it is. Younger generation, we all generations at some point have their moments where they, you know, days come up. But there is an assumption that there's an assumed pattern with the younger generation of coming in late and not giving a shit.
Brad Herda [:That is a very bold assumption.
Steven Doyle [:Yep. And it. Unfortunately, sometimes the assumptions and perceptions are reality.
Brad Herda [:Right? Yeah. Yeah. Somebody. Yeah.
Brad Herda [:The reality of the person doing it, that is their own version of reality because they're not willing to have the conversation to find out.
Brad Herda [:Correct.
Brad Herda [:I had another client where she has staff that is probably to the more economically challenged side. So they carpool.
Brad Herda [:Yep.
Brad Herda [:And if the car's not right, if you're not ready when the car shows up. Yeah. You're not getting there.
Steven Doyle [:Yes. Is that. Do you remember the episode on everybody loves Raymond where, where he told her at a certain time, your ass needs to be in this, in ready to go or he's leaving. Do you remember that episode? And she had her hair curler is like all caught up in her hair and he's like, it's time. And I'm out. And he left. And she comes walking down the stairs because of all the other things that had happened. That's all that reminds me of.
Steven Doyle [:Right there.
Brad Herda [:Right.
Brad Herda [:So at 658, the owner gets a text saying, hey, I'm not going to be there today. And she decided that I'm not going to play that game and I need a better answer than why I'm not there. And it was like, I overslide. I didn't get out on time to make carpool. She sent somebody back to go pick him up to get them there because it wasn't. It wasn't going to be acceptable to not show up.
Brad Herda [:Right.
Brad Herda [:It just not acceptable. You. We got to figure out those things. But you may have employees. Hey, you're ten minutes late. Because daycare line was long. You don't know what those things are. You're making the assumption that up all night gaming, don't really care or whatever, but they may be the most caring individuals, but you never give them a chance.
Steven Doyle [:One of the things that. That I have seen consistently is, yes, everybody has their moments, and there may be days or times when that happens.
Brad Herda [:And.
Steven Doyle [:And usually owners and people are more receptive to, okay, you know, we get stuff happens. But there's also trends that we're seeing where, because expectations haven't been laid out in a. In a very, I would say, clear, concise manner, and then the accountability to consistently keep on somebody where, you know, with some clients, they actually have somebody. That one client in particular has somebody that's consistently showing up late. And now it's a running joke with everybody when the person actually does show up to work. And yeah, the person does the person stay later? Maybe a minute or two, but now it's the running joke. And because nothing's been said, nothing's been done, now you start to have disgruntled employees because now you have somebody that clearly is, quote unquote, stealing time from the company. And it goes back to, you know, some of the things that we were talking about pre show is it goes back to the notion, right, of those older workers unwilling to have the mentorship or talk to and teach the younger workers because why do I want to teach somebody that's lazy? Disrespects the rules, disrespects all the other workers because they think it's okay to show up late, make light of it, and yet the owners are not holding people accountable, not holding that person accountable, and they're not talking to their employees.
Steven Doyle [:Like, this isn't right. So now you have all of this. You really essentially now are starting to build a lack of trust in the organization, not just across the employees, but again, with the employees and the management team because we're so unwilling to have those uncomfortable conversations to hold people accountable to what is established as this. These are, this is the criteria, whether it's the established rule, its criteria, whatever it is. But we're talking, we're not talking for those that are, you know, the occasional offenders. It's the consistent offenders.
Brad Herda [:Correct.
Brad Herda [:And usually there's a reason behind it. And so I asked the question. I said, so have you ever thought about a flexible start time? And they're like, well, we've never really done that. I said, really? Because I'm going to bet that over the 40 years of the organization that you've had guys that were of an older era that had issues, that it was okay for them to show up ten minutes early because the foreman would look away and say, yeah, it's okay for Billy to come in at ten minutes late, no big deal, because they were part of the in crowd or part of the right group of people. But those guys over there, no, no, no. You have to follow all the rules. And there's all these double, triple, quadruple standards that are floating around out there that's like, hey, look, you know, let's make sure we understand the rules and we can all be. We can, we can either play by the rules or we can be good humans and figure out what's best for everybody and try to find those compromise situations versus a win and a loss.
Brad Herda [:Yeah, absolutely.
Brad Herda [:I'm actually going to a site on Monday that it's a. They've got a foreman that is very efficiency focused.
Brad Herda [:Okay.
Brad Herda [:And drives, drives efficiency through the roof.
Steven Doyle [:I mean, what's wrong with that? So what's wrong with that? I don't see anything wrong with that. I like efficiency.
Brad Herda [:Until you put safety at risk, instructions at risk.
Steven Doyle [:Well, there's that.
Brad Herda [:Yeah.
Brad Herda [:Put schedule that, you know, you know, we got, we got time, so. But we're going to get ahead of schedule without communicating. Why you want to get ahead of schedule for the day?
Brad Herda [:Right?
Brad Herda [:Like today. Snow. Snow day today.
Brad Herda [:Okay.
Brad Herda [:If you were, if you knew it was coming and you had to bust your ass on Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, because you knew you weren't working today, good. But tell them that on Tuesday, right?
Steven Doyle [:Don't tell them, hey, this is, yeah.
Brad Herda [:Don'T, don't try to get, you know, 60 hours of work in a 35 hours workweek because, you know, you're going to be off on Friday. Try to set that tone right. That, hey, we got a, we got a weather day coming, so let's figure it out. And they're losing now. They're, now there's this, there's this battle now between the old and new of what's going on. And we have siblings involved, and we've got, it's, it's going to, it's a mess. It's like, yes, they've lost the trust, but the intent is to understand, set the framework as to what is, what the expectation is. What is the company expectation? And that's from the owners becoming lax and saying, hey, you guys got it.
Brad Herda [:It's all good. We're going to work over here. And then it gets out of control, and now we got to roll it all back in. And the role for, for myself is to keep the owners on task, to hold everybody accountable and get the process in place, procedures in place. What are you going to do to make sure that these things happened?
Brad Herda [:Yep.
Brad Herda [:What is your, we're not going on a roof policy. What is it? Is it wind? Is it temperature? Is it air conditions? Is humidity? What, what is it?
Brad Herda [:Right.
Brad Herda [:You tell me what your policy is so that your foreman know what it is. Foreman says, ah, it's safe. The guys don't feel comfortable. There's, there's nobody to go do anything or talk to anything about because there's nothing to have a conversation over.
Steven Doyle [:Mm hmm. Which is, uh, which is very interesting. So what else happened in this, uh, this board meeting that we talked about? So we talked a little bit about the different generations.
Brad Herda [:Right.
Steven Doyle [:And we talked about, uh, you know, the the older, the older workers, the younger workers, those that quit.
Brad Herda [:Right.
Steven Doyle [:And not being, you know, not really considered, quote unquote turnover because they were, quote unquote viewed as lazy.
Brad Herda [:Right.
Steven Doyle [:So as we went down that path, what else happened in that, in that.
Brad Herda [:Meeting, we talked about some safety issues. You know, they've got their ocean stuff. We asked about near misses and near misses. Near misses. Well, we had that conversation and I just gave up. So they work on top of platforms, they work on top of their product. They put their machines up there. And I just gave the example of, hey, you know, because the mom had asked me, what is a near miss? And I'm like, well, near miss would be, let's say your welder's up on top and, you know, you're doing your work and somebody decides to do something and something's still chained up, but it falls off the edge, but nobody got hurt, nothing.
Brad Herda [:That's a near miss. And the president of the company looks at me and goes, who are you? Because they had an incident, a near miss a week or two earlier where a bottle fell off of the cart, fell probably six or 7ft off the, you know, six or 7ft. It's because it wasn't chained properly. It wasn't chained at all. And somebody probably changed the, don't know all the particulars. But at the end of the day, it's lack of communication, lack of understanding, lack of accountability along the way of teaching each other about, hey, somebody, probably somebody saw it. Somebody could have said, hey, make sure that's chained because they're relatively younger, newer staff members, the senior person in the, in the area, because, hey, make sure before you move that you check the chains.
Brad Herda [:Right.
Brad Herda [:To avoid it. It's the see something, say something mentality. And too often the see something, say something is thought of to be nitpicky and personal where you need to make it part of your culture and hold people accountable along the way.
Brad Herda [:Right?
Steven Doyle [:And it's, it's actually unfortunate because when we, those of us that have been on jobs for a while, we get to the point where it's just like we, we see that and we're like, oh, that's, that's going to suck for them. And we just keep walking and it's like, how are they going to learn? And sometimes, you know, you, you could be viewed as, you know, that asshole that keeps pointing things out, you know, because, hey, why do you keep pointing things out? So they don't hurt themselves. But if you don't want me to point things out. That's fine. We'll just chalk that up as a life lesson. Yep. That's gonna hurt over there. To hope they learn.
Steven Doyle [:Oh, hey, come here. Let's watch this over here. Let's watch these guys over here do this. Look at how many pants you take. Look at that thing move.
Brad Herda [:I hope it don't fall, baby.
Steven Doyle [:There it goes. Should have chained that down.
Brad Herda [:It's like going to watch at a boat launch.
Brad Herda [:Yeah.
Brad Herda [:You know, just think of all the things how. How much better a boat launch could go if people were there willing to help each other instead of worried about only their things and only their stuff. Say, hey, can I help you with that? Can I help you tie that and not have, oh, the boat came off the trailer because I noticed that the safety hook wasn't on, and I'm going to watch him pull it out anyhow.
Steven Doyle [:Yeah. Yup. 100%.
Brad Herda [:Why didn't you tell them the safety hook wasn't on?
Steven Doyle [:All you had to do was open your mouth and just push. Push some air and words, you know.
Brad Herda [:Move your mouth because, you know, the 17 year old kid or 14 year old kid or the twelve year old kid who's out on the boat with mom and dad that happened to be flexible enough to be able to get down and around and be able to hook something. Well, they're busy checking their. Doing whatever. But you had everybody at the launch watching this happen and nobody said everybody watched. Boo.
Brad Herda [:Yeah.
Brad Herda [:It's the same thing inside the workforce.
Brad Herda [:Yes.
Brad Herda [:You got to be able to talk about it. And I have a conversation with somebody the other day, we were, oh, who was it? I forget who it was, but we were talking about flipping the script on that whole respect piece. If you.
Brad Herda [:If.
Brad Herda [:If you started your career or you were the tenured employee and you started out with, I trust and respect the company to make the right hires, and I'm going to support this person to do the right things all along the way. And you start from there versus starting from, they don't know anything, they're stupid, blah, blah, blah. The opportunity for success dramatically changes. Right, right. I get to work on deducting instead of adding.
Brad Herda [:Right.
Brad Herda [:And I'm like, yeah, that's exactly what the older employee.
Brad Herda [:Yes. They.
Brad Herda [:The new. The new 22 year old kid should come in and everybody should be, oh, hey, welcome here. Thank you very much.
Brad Herda [:Cool.
Brad Herda [:I can't wait to see what you can do. Let's make this happen. Here we go.
Brad Herda [:Right.
Brad Herda [:It's kind of like the court of law. They should be innocent until proven guilty.
Steven Doyle [:You're guilty until proven innocent.
Brad Herda [:Well, that's. That's what it's like going on to a job site and going into places. And it's just backwards. Just wrong.
Brad Herda [:Yep.
Brad Herda [:And then we're going to complain for another decade and a half about how we can't find good people because we're too ignorant and stupid to make the changes today. Time is fucking running out.
Steven Doyle [:Yes, it is.
Brad Herda [:Right.
Brad Herda [:We're in 2024 and we've had the shortage for two decades. And we're going to. It's still going to continue to happen. So every time we detract and deter somebody from getting into the. Trying something and getting in and trying to learn and become a better human to use their skillset, and we deter it because they're not like us.
Brad Herda [:Right.
Brad Herda [:Just one more. Just one more death nail in the coffin here for. And I hope they got to pay $700 to get their toilet jiggered. That's not. Because that's on them. That's on them for not getting anybody in there. That house call is going to cost them a fortune because they didn't want to let somebody in to understand it. Toilet jiggered.
Brad Herda [:Leaking. They got a jigger the toilet.
Steven Doyle [:Jigger the toilet. That's a new one.
Brad Herda [:Know all about that as you've been working at mom's house. Oh, yeah.
Brad Herda [:Yep.
Steven Doyle [:So one of the last things that we. That I want to just kind of highlight before we sign off today is in your story that you were telling a little bit in the pre show. We were talking about how it's okay to let the younger generation go because they don't want to work and we want to keep the person that is extremely experienced but might have a bad attitude or an attitude towards those younger workers. So I want to talk a little bit more about, you know, highlight that a little bit more.
Brad Herda [:Right.
Steven Doyle [:Because as we're. We both experienced this in whether it's working with clients, it's working in our past lives where we may have some experienced employees that, yes, they contribute, but they might do the bare min and their attitudes may or may not be, I would say, average.
Brad Herda [:Right.
Steven Doyle [:They could go. They could go dip negative, but they're going to be, quote unquote, in general, average. So you've got an average employee doing average or below average work, just doing the things, and you're trying to rely on them to actually train and coach the younger generation coming in. And if the younger generation isn't really, quote unquote, fitting in or feeling like, you know, they're like, they matter. And you're constantly have, you know, those employees that are experienced, they contribute average work, and they're just kind of like, yeah, whatever. How do you think the employees, the younger generation actually feel when they're partnered with mentors like that?
Brad Herda [:Oh, not good at all.
Steven Doyle [:Right.
Brad Herda [:Because there's no hope because now they find out, oh, well, hey, George has been here 32 years, and he has, he feels like he's accomplished nothing.
Steven Doyle [:Mm hmm.
Brad Herda [:The 22 year old kid doesn't want to feel that way.
Brad Herda [:Right.
Brad Herda [:They. They're coming. And we've talked about Maslow's laws, hierarchy of needs numerous times. You can scoff at it, you can laugh at it, you can do all those things at it, but it's a real thing. And it's, if you pay attention to it and work your business that way and your hiring practices that way and building out communities that give you that sense of community to start versus I think I'm going to provide you job for security, food, water, shelter, safety. You're missing the boat for creating an environment where all your employees are going to be wanting to get more of their friends there, more of their people there, because they have a sense of community. They have a sense of purpose and been blessed to be at organizations where those feelings existed and where that bond was there, and you knew what you're striving for and you knew what was going on. And too many these small family businesses don't want to go down that path to really help people understand what their primary purpose is for every day.
Brad Herda [:Here's what we do every day. What is your greater good? I'm listening to clockwork right now from Mike Michalowicz.
Brad Herda [:Right.
Brad Herda [:It's the queen B role, QBR. What is the one thing, that's the one thing that's important for the business that keeps things going and how do you support that role? Get clear on that and make that happen. And there's lots of ways to do it. There's thousands of books out there about all those things. You just got to find what works for your company.
Brad Herda [:Yep.
Brad Herda [:But if you can get everybody focused on the same thing, life is amazing. When that happens, you get an organization that people are taking accountability. They're doing what they're doing, and they make it happen. And loyalty goes through the roof and robbery goes through the roof, and turnover goes down and productivity goes up, and you may not have to work the extra hours on a Friday if you're a four and a half work week kind of place, and.
Brad Herda [:Right.
Brad Herda [:Yeah, noon, Friday, no big deal. Versus those that are going to slow it down because I need the extra 4 hours this week. No, no, no.
Brad Herda [:Come on. So.
Brad Herda [:Cause you're paying, you're paying wages well above average right now. Many things and just make sure you. We're paying the individual contributors well above average. But our leaders have not excelled to support the organization's skill levels coming in and leaders need to get off their butts and let's learn how to learn how to lead.
Steven Doyle [:That sounds like a great topic for a new show.
Brad Herda [:Well, who knows, it might. Well, it won't be the next one because that, that's gonna be, yeah, that's not gonna happen. It might be one that's later in June or July, but that's not gonna happen.
Steven Doyle [:Well, Brad, it's a, this is a great topic, so thank you for sharing what was going on with you and some clients and definitely appreciate you sharing that.
Brad Herda [:Absolutely. It's important for people to hear some truths that they don't want to hear at times.
Brad Herda [:And.
Brad Herda [:We just need to continue to move forward and create organizations that will thrive in a multi generational workforce. So we just keep moving forward here. That's what blue collar b's is all about. Thank you for listening to blue collar B's. Brought to you by vision for business solutions and professional business coaching income. If you'd like to learn more on today's topic, just reach out to Steve Doyle or myself, Brad Hurda. Please like share rate and review this show as feedback is the only way we can get better. Let's keep blue collar businesses strong for generations to come.
