Episode 162
What Happens When BROADs Call BS
We did something a little different this week a crossover with Erin and Lori from BROADcast for Manufacturers. We tackled how fear based leadership and economic uncertainty are gutting decision-making, hiring, and trust across the shop floor.
We dug into why leaders freezing up or worse, constantly changing course is killing morale and productivity. A recent Russell Reynolds report gave us a solid starting point, but the real value came from real experience: what happens when leaders react instead of lead.
We also discussed how different generations respond under pressure, why some Gen Z workers are stepping up faster than expected, and what shifting promotion trends mean for the future of your workforce.
Highlights:
- The one-two punch of analysis paralysis and zigzag leadership.
- How fear-based decisions erode trust and slow teams down.
- What Gen Z expects from leadership—and how they’re rising.
- The missed cost of inaction in uncertain times.
- Why clarity beats control every time.
How are you leading through uncertainty? Send us a message or connect on LinkedIn we want to hear what’s working and what’s not.
Connect with the Broads:
Connect with Lori:
Connect with Kris:
Connect with Erin:
Get in touch with us:
Check out the Blue Collar BS website.
Steve Doyle:
Brad Herda:
This podcast uses the following third-party services for analysis:
Podtrac - https://analytics.podtrac.com/privacy-policy-gdrp
OP3 - https://op3.dev/privacy
Transcript
it.
Brad Herda (:Hey everyone. Welcome back to the blue collar BS. am the B NBS Brad.
Steve Doyle (:Then I am the S in BS Steve. I am the S. Sometimes you got to own it.
Brad Herda (:Yes, you are. You are the S.
Brad Herda (:Own it and live it and wear it proudly, Mr. Doyle.
Steve Doyle (:That's right, that's right, that's right. you know, it's kind of the middle of summer. You know, hot muggy. So you know you're kind of lounging around in the AC because it's nasty. It's nasty. You know you got it's county fair season. Outdoor concert season so.
Brad Herda (:What's going on in Detroit right now?
Brad Herda (:Fair enough. Fair enough.
Brad Herda (:All right, favorite, favorite fair food.
Favorite fair food that if you could eat it, you would.
Steve Doyle (:Okay, there we go. There's a good clarifier if I could eat it If I could eat it it probably be an elephant ear If I could eat it if I could eat it Can't but if I could that would probably be pretty damn tasty Yours
Brad Herda (:that's a tough one.
There's a there at our state fair there's a there was a truck there a couple years ago that had a. Chorizo. Pepper Jack cheese stuffed bratwurst on a stick.
Steve Doyle (:Mmm.
Steve Doyle (:Ooh!
Brad Herda (:deep fried, was delicious.
Steve Doyle (:Okay, so all right, I was gonna I was gonna go down that deep fried Oreo, whatever. Whoever has a deep fried butter like what type nastiness right?
Brad Herda (:Yeah, I know. Right. The chocolate bacon's not bad either.
Steve Doyle (:Well, there you go. There you go. Cool. Yeah.
Brad Herda (:So, all right, Mr. Doyle, your topic of the day from what you shared with me pre show is this Good Morning America piece that essentially has I'll call it, I don't want to say sensationalized, but promoting the the ability for making six figures by the time you're 20 type scenario. So.
Steve Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Steve Doyle (:Yeah. Yeah. So it was, you know, it was really interesting. you know, the the Good Morning America article will will post that in the show notes for the video. And it really just starts to highlight what the cultural shift that's that's starting, I would say starting. And some people can argue, well, it's been kind of going on, but it's been pretty quiet. But high schoolers are bypassing college for the trades.
Brad Herda (:Let's talk about that.
Steve Doyle (:with graduates earning 70K right out of school a year. They don't have college debt, nothing going on. They're already earning 7K. And so they're not, it's a fantastic opportunity for those that don't wanna incur debt, don't wanna keep going on to an institution to, know, the...
They just their hands on and they want to get they want to get shit done now.
Brad Herda (:True as a true statement is a opportunity. But as we've discussed in the past, if they're doing it for money and only money, do you think that we are going to run into another trades problem in five to seven years when they're burnt out or they're tired of?
Steve Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Steve Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Brad Herda (:or they don't see the growth or hey, you know, we've started at the top end of the range. So there's nothing to work. There's nothing to work towards. There's no self-actualization to take place because we keep learning, but we're not necessarily making more.
Steve Doyle (:Mmm.
Steve Doyle (:Right? Yep.
Steve Doyle (:I mean, you do, you're always going to run that risk no matter what industry you're in. Of and where you start people out salary wise. You're always going to run into that that concept or that.
Brad Herda (:Yeah, but that but do think as an industry though the construction trades world is.
potentially creating its own implosion.
Steve Doyle (:Implosion, no.
Brad Herda (:because of the wage inflation and what COVID did and other things.
Steve Doyle (:I mean, COVID, you're a few years out removed from that now. Wages never, wages. Correct, correct, that's the point. Wages have not went back. And I truly don't believe wages are not gonna go back to where they were pre-COVID. Even though a lot of business owners would love that to happen, because they would love to pocket that additional money that they would quote unquote be saving on salary. You're just not gonna see that happen anytime soon.
Brad Herda (:We are, but the wages haven't necessarily come back down to...
Steve Doyle (:it would require something more catastrophic to happen in the workforce, in the global environment today for a massive resetting of salary expectations.
Brad Herda (:and more.
Brad Herda (:What industries you think need to lead that restructuring before the construction manufacturing world is able to readjust?
Steve Doyle (:Ooh. What industry should lead a reduction in salary?
Brad Herda (:In order for the other industries to to tag along, where do you think that? It's a trick question I'm setting up. I'm setting up a little bit here, but where do you?
Steve Doyle (:You're right, it is a trick question. You are set. I mean, that's a very loaded question because there isn't a, to me, there's not a great answer for that or an answer for that. Everyone would need to re-level set what expected from there.
Brad Herda (:Yeah, but there's but so think about it, right? So there are many there are jobs out here that people are doing right now that don't have a ton of effort and they can make this make similar wages with greater flexibility without having to be in the sun in the cold listening to loud noises other than what they want to listen to headphones or earbuds on their own.
Steve Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Steve Doyle (:All right, so you're going to have to clue me in because, you know, it's Friday at five and five o'clock somewhere. So, you know, my head immediately goes to, you know, those entry level fast food working jobs.
Brad Herda (:Well, they're not entry level anymore. That's the problem. That's to me, to me, that's exactly that becomes the issue. If those if those jobs are paying 18, $20, $17 an hour to start. And yet a general labor on a GC crew is paying $19 an hour to start.
Steve Doyle (:Correct, they're not. They're not, right?
Thank you.
Steve Doyle (:Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Steve Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Brad Herda (:Unless the kid, young person truly has an interest in that from a long-term perspective, they're not getting in.
Steve Doyle (:.
Steve Doyle (:Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Yeah. So so side note, my oldest daughter told me that she knows kids are charging twenty five dollars an hour for babysitting and are getting paid for it right now. No, right now. They're twenty five dollars an hour right now to babysit. No, it doesn't one.
Brad Herda (:Are you fucking kidding me? $25 an hour for babysitting?
How many kids now if there's six kids, okay, great.
Steve Doyle (:Or many. It starts at 25 an hour and this person is getting paid for it. You talk about a level set mind, but like I just turn around, looked at her. said what? And I was like, I mean, hey, set your rate. Know your worth by all means. You got somebody paying for it.
Brad Herda (:my gosh. mean, I-
Brad Herda (:Wow, there is no way. I mean...
Steve Doyle (:Yeah. Shit is right.
Brad Herda (:Shit, had to be.
what does so. Let's see here: Steve Doyle (:So that's a little detour. That's a little detour.
Steve Doyle (:Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Brad Herda (:What's that conversion look like?
So I want to do the reverse of this. what was a 25? What is a 20, $25?
Steve Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Okay.
Brad Herda (:worth in.
1981. Let's see what that says.
Brad Herda (:Why won't it do backwards?
Steve Doyle (:You know, we're in that tech loop today.
Brad Herda (:Fucking AI.
Steve Doyle (:We're in that tech loop today.
Mm-hmm.
Brad Herda (:So it says $3.69.
rate would have been in in in: Steve Doyle (:I don't know what trying to do. I don't know what you're trying to do.
1981, yeah I got it.
Steve Doyle (:Yeah.
Yes. Yeah. Yeah.
Brad Herda (:230 in the morning and I'd walk home that I'd walk home All right
Steve Doyle (:Yeah. Yep, mm hmm. So just imagine so. So a lot of things at that entry level would need to readjust to go down to your question. So. Until that happens, let's let's take a let's kind of go back to that that good morning America report where they're literally looking at. You know somebody, you know the.
The contractor in this story, they hired a 19 year old kid who outworked the veteran crew and is earning $70,000 a year without incurring any debt from going to four years of school.
Brad Herda (:Mm-hmm.
Brad Herda (:And from the owner perspective, if that kid's outperforming from results based on production, quality, attitude, all those things, yes, you have to pay them what they're worth. Do not disagree at all. And that's where the opportunity lies. And that's where you got to figure out what is the production value versus the wisdom value versus cultural value. And you got to break up that hourly wage into those chunks and
Steve Doyle (:and
Steve Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm. Yep.
Steve Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Brad Herda (:be more transparent on the value to the organization to come up with that. But that's a whole, that's another topic. but the, the, again, I, I still think that we are set up for failure come seven, eight years from now because of, because of where it's starting because by the time they're 26, let's say, right. Seven, eight years in the industry may
Steve Doyle (:Right.
Steve Doyle (:Yeah, but.
Steve Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Steve Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Brad Herda (:It may not, because then by then...
Steve Doyle (:It may or may not. doesn't.
Brad Herda (:Because then there's enough boomers gone. There's that just might there just might be enough there to not have it implode
Steve Doyle (:Mm Well, I mean, it won't necessarily implode. All the prices shift up. I mean, we've seen it. We everybody quote unquote calls it inflation right now. But is it really because but is it really because
Brad Herda (:Yeah, but it does. But you've seen it though. You've seen housing industry crashes. You've seen all that stuff happen because people can't afford it.
Steve Doyle (:Yeah, everything ebbs and flows. Yeah, everything ebbs and flows. Like it'll crash when people can't afford it. But as of right now, because everybody's wages have increased, they can't afford it. But everything is also costing more. Why is it costing more? Because wages have increased. Right. So we're our own worst enemy by paying more, expecting less, expecting to pay less. But in reality,
We're paying for all these entry level people. have way higher salaries than they ever used to have. And I would say even your older workforce doesn't get, there's no back pay for, hey, we brought in somebody at, when you were brought in, you were brought in here. Now this person's being brought in. They're already earning 25,000 more than you when you were brought in and they're already at your pay rate.
So there's a whole lot of other things going on.
Brad Herda (:Yeah, the parity the the wage parity same thing and help same thing in health care Right doesn't matter if you're coming out of college or you've been there 40 years you're gonna be about the same There's there's a lot of wage Equalization. There's not a lot of growth opportunities which For us supporting our clients we have to figure out and work with them to how are we going to
Steve Doyle (:Yep.
Steve Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Steve Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Brad Herda (:figure out expectations and growth opportunities or cost of living increases, et cetera, if expectations don't change, because if they're already, how do you make that happen? And to me, that's where the conundrum comes in.
Steve Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Steve Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Yeah, which is understandable. But also there are some things we can't control and things we can't control.
Brad Herda (:So what are the things we can control?
Steve Doyle (:Well, we can control in our own businesses, we can control the mindset, we can control the expectations. We can level set everybody with those expectations. This is what it's really going to look like. And we have to be crystal clear with everyone and be consistent. The other thing we have to be consistent with what we're saying. The other thing we can control
Brad Herda (:Correct.
Steve Doyle (:Is we know that there is in the near future, most of the older generation is going to be retiring if they haven't already started now. Leveraging that younger generation that's coming in, and it was highlighted also in this article, is how Gen Z is turning to social media to share what they're doing.
Brad Herda (:Correct.
Steve Doyle (:how that is working not only from a personal brand, but it's also working from branding for the company to showcase to other younger workers, hey, this is what it's like working here, and this is the cool stuff that I'm doing.
Brad Herda (:It's a marketing opportunity, sales opportunity for sure that that wouldn't that wouldn't exist. And it's as we talked about cutting your way to prosperity, that's a way to not cut your way to prosperity, but give them the time, give them the 45 minutes a day to put together a plan or do something or do some posting and commenting. That's paid time versus unpaid time. Cause it will cause it will help. I mean, we just had
Steve Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Steve Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Steve Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Brad Herda (:you know, Darrell on.
Steve Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Brad Herda (:He'll be here in a few months. think he'll his episode will air in a few months going to trade shows where they knew him. They didn't know the owner, but they knew they knew him working there, but not anybody else because he's the one out on LinkedIn doing the work, doing the things, publicizing, publishing, being engaged, showing, you know, kind of being the face of the company.
Steve Doyle (:Right. Right. Now, the other the other things, what else is in our control? Is where are we showing up for this younger generation if we're truly looking at how do we help them? Not you know, how do we help students that recognize, hey, maybe going to a four year school isn't for me. How do we help them? Right. And it's showing them where the apprenticeships are like we can. That is something we can control in a business.
Brad Herda (:Right.
Steve Doyle (:is helping those that we're looking for not sitting back in our chairs going, oh, where is everybody? I'm going to throw my job thing out on Craigslist or Facebook or LinkedIn or wherever. Right? Because I've seen it where people, that's where people start because they're like, oh, we're looking for handy people and they're always on Craigslist or, know, maybe I'll even post it on eBay. I don't know.
Brad Herda (:Swipe right.
Steve Doyle (:I don't know where to post it.
So.
Brad Herda (:hire a recruiter or find the right at that point. Spend the money to get the recruiter to find the right fit. I cannot stress that enough. Hire for fit, not for skill. And that's a difficult thing to do with younger talent because there's not typically communication isn't the language barrier, the language gap between translating
Steve Doyle (:Yeah, I mean, there's there's a ton of stuff that you can do,
Mm-hmm.
Steve Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Steve Doyle (:Right.
Brad Herda (:high school experiences into real world experiences, you have to be open minded enough as an interviewing leader, or as that business owner to be able to translate or ask good enough questions about the high school experience and or other experiences they may have had to translate into skill and or knowledge and or attitude and or fit and or core values because they're not.
Steve Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Steve Doyle (:Yeah.
Steve Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Brad Herda (:they don't practice interviewing. They don't know the value of some of those things, right? The Eagle Scout, the Robotics kids, the DECA kids, the, you know, all of those organizations that are inside schools all bring value to the business community, but students don't recognize the value that's there.
Steve Doyle (:Right. Mm hmm.
Steve Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Steve Doyle (:Correct. Mm-hmm. Yep. So, Brad, in your opinion, how would you, if a kid was on the fence, high schooler, was on the fence of going to school versus going into the trades, what's a way you would help show them that trades aren't a plan B?
Brad Herda (:so for me, cause I've had those conversations with some of our robotics kids, what should I do? What should I not do? they would ask questions. We would find them opportunities to go shadow with some of our other mentors at their organizations, go walk the shop floors, go on tours, go look at things.
Steve Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Steve Doyle (:hehe
Steve Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Brad Herda (:explain in our own fab shop, machine shop, shop at the school. This is what a day could look like. This is what's going on. Being that I worked, you know, at the time with in the mining world, I can show them, I would show them pictures of the things we were making, the things we were doing, their end use case. Okay, does this interest you or not interest you? And then, okay.
Steve Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Steve Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Brad Herda (:Do you like sitting at the desk all day in front of a computer or do you like being up and around and doing things with your hands? Because if you don't like being, if you don't like standing and you don't like working with your hands, we probably going to have an issue.
Steve Doyle (:Right.
Steve Doyle (:Mm-hmm. Yep.
Brad Herda (:Right? If getting dirty is an issue for you, if you want to keep your clothes all clean and all neat and tidy and you don't like uniforms and those types of things, we may have an issue. But walk them through some of those small. Daily life things is what I would do with them so they get an idea of. OK, because just because you're might be an HVAC tech doesn't mean you're not talking to people.
Steve Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Steve Doyle (:Right.
Brad Herda (:Because when the homeowner comes out and says, Hey, what are you doing? Or what happened? Or what's going on? You have to explain that.
Steve Doyle (:Right?
Brad Herda (:Oh, okay. Well, maybe I like welding instead. Okay, you want to be a production welder. Cool. Great. Do you want to do the same thing all the time? Or do you want to be more into the fabrication world? Well, then you need to do this versus that and help guide them in those types of decisions and give them the opportunity and say, Hey, call somebody up. Can you come and see your shop? You want to do high tension, you know, high energy wires for
Steve Doyle (:Okay.
Steve Doyle (:Mm hmm. Yep.
Brad Herda (:Electrical line linesmen great I call people fire people power and say hey, can you guys talk to so-and-so they have interest Yep, come on in. Let's go show you a plant tour, right? Those are the things that I would do with those young individuals to say go get a look
Steve Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Steve Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Steve Doyle (:That's excellent. I think we're going to leave that mic drop right there.
Brad Herda (:Fair enough, fair enough because your technology is about to kick you out of the show it seems like. We're about that point in time.
Steve Doyle (:So.
I mean there is that there is that for some reason. But honestly, it's it's having the conversations with the kids to let him know that there are options. But as Brad explained, just showing them the way you gotta show them a path. And that's unfortunately what's not happening is people. Finding the people that can show them the path. Right?
Brad Herda (:And share the truth about it, right? All the stuff that's on social media in most cases is is all the glamour, all the glory, all the things, all the right. No one's talking about the fact that. Unfortunately, in my career, when working at Bucyrus, there were three deaths, two in our facility and one at a supplier that I had to go through and deal with. It happens. It doesn't happen every day, but there are things that happen.
Steve Doyle (:Okay.
Steve Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Steve Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Brad Herda (:And it's horrible and it's horrific and it's but it's part of what's there if you're not paying attention and doing things. So helping them the kids understand it's just not all about the money. There's lots of other things that go with it.
Steve Doyle (:Right.
Steve Doyle (:Mm hmm. Yeah.
Brad Herda (:And you can, if working with your hands is this, is my other fear of what's happening is we're going to put all these young folks in position to work with their hands that they're all going to want to be out of working with their hands. And by the time they're 28 or 29, there aren't enough and there aren't enough estimating roles or project manager roles or things like that to, to move them forward.
Steve Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Steve Doyle (:Right.
Steve Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Brad Herda (:and they'd likely take a pay cut.
Steve Doyle (:Yep, exactly.
Brad Herda (:Yeah, so there's a little bit of that imbalance that I'm concerned about, but we'll see how it plays out. Time will tell.
Steve Doyle (:Right. Yep. I did do my work today.
Brad Herda (:Mr. Doyle, thanks for bringing up the topic. You did your work this time. We appreciate it. The S in the SNBS did some did some stuff.
Steve Doyle (:Did some stuff, did some ass.
Brad Herda (:Did some S. You did some S. That is correct.
All right, until next time, Mr. Doyle, have a awesome, awesome weekend. All right.
Steve Doyle (:Yeah, thanks you too.
