Episode 223
Your Labor Math Is Drunk with Cary Sparrow
This week's guest is Cary Sparrow, founder and CEO of WageScape, a company that pulls together the world's largest and most current labor market data set. Before building WageScape, Cary spent time on nuclear submarines in the Navy and had a long career in engineering, military consulting, and operations leadership.
We get into how WageScape works, scanning job ads across the country every day to build a real, unbiased picture of what companies are paying for specific roles, rather than relying on guesswork, outdated averages, or word of mouth. Cary explains why relying on anecdotes about what a competitor paid someone can lead companies to make costly decisions in either direction, overpaying out of fear or underpaying and losing the right people for critical roles.
We also talk about the wild swings in wage growth since the pandemic, jumping from a steady 3% a year to 30% a year during the labor shortage, and why that whiplash is still causing headaches for companies trying to figure out fair pay today. Cary shares his read on the current job market, including why so many people are on edge right now, and where he sees real opportunity, especially for people willing to learn how to use AI tools in their work. We also touch on the challenge veterans face translating military experience into skills that make sense to civilian employers.
Highlights
- How WageScape collects and uses real-time labor market data.
- Why anecdotal pay comparisons can lead companies to make costly mistakes.
- The wild wage swings since the pandemic and what they mean for hiring today.
- Where Cary sees real opportunity in today's uncertain job market.
- The challenge of translating military experience into civilian job skills.
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Transcript
Welcome back to this episode of BlueCaller BS. Brad, how you doing today?
Cary (:you
Brad Herda (:I am fantastic, Mr. Stephen Doyle and how is the Detroit Motor City treating you in this? Is it warm or cold today?
Doyle (:I guess it's all relevant or perspective maybe. I think it's warm, but it's balmy 14 out covered in snow. there's... February, Yep. It's February, but there's high moisture content with a little wind. So it makes it feel a little on the... Maybe I do need to put on a jacket.
Brad Herda (:14 can be warm 14 in January, February, we're in February not January. Holy shit.
Cary (:you
Brad Herda (:Maybe we need to put pants on.
Doyle (:Exactly that. mean, I have been outside shoveling snow with just a t-shirt. They're shorts, but you know, right, right. We got to clarify. We do go out with shorts and a t-shirt. I mean, that this is still short and t-shirt weather, but with the wind slightly blowing with a higher moisture content in the air, it gets a little to the bone. So you're kind of like, maybe I do need to put on that sweatshirt, but definitely no pants, like no snow pants, like no jeans, like no, no shorts.
Brad Herda (:With no pants? Okay.
Cary (:Thank
Cary (:Thank
Brad Herda (:Stop, la la la la. I don't want to hear about no pants.
Cary (:Thank you.
Doyle (:No pants. No pants. So, you know, that kind of stuff going on. What's going on over there in the in big Milwaukee area?
Brad Herda (:Today it's 33 degrees and snow is melting and it's all good and it's Super Bowl weekend So we get to watch dumb television commercials and get excited about Teams I don't care about so yay You know and a plumbing project I also have a plumbing project this weekend, so that's always
Doyle (:and it's calming.
Doyle (:man, let's go Pat go. that is fantastic. So well, Brad, who do we got on the show today?
Brad Herda (:No, it sucks. Today we have Kerry Sparrow, the founder and CEO of WageScape, where they provide developers, analysts and consulting firms with access to the world's largest, most up to date labor market data collection. And when I say largest and up to date, he is not lying. Our pre-call, after we got our call done, I went out into his website and looked at some stuff. Holy shit. It is absolutely amazing.
Cary (:you
Cary (:you
Brad Herda (:The WageScape team takes a serious and impactful approach to tackling big market issues, providing the best data, drive best decisions. He's also spent time on some nuclear submarines, 35 years of engineering, military consulting, operations leadership. The guy's kind of done it all. So I'm looking forward for him to share his knowledge, wisdom and experiences with our audience. Kerry, welcome to the show.
Doyle (:Mmm!
Cary (:you
Cary (:Hey, thanks guys. It's a pleasure to be here.
Doyle (:We appreciate you.
Brad Herda (:Everybody says that and then when they leave, they sometimes second guess their question that statement. So we'll see how you go today.
Cary (:Now I'm sure we'll have a blast. Although I'm sitting in Minneapolis today and it's colder here than either of you guys.
Doyle (:Yeah, so.
Brad Herda (:It is cold. Yes, my son lives up there and he complains about that all the time. Although he's not a hot. He doesn't like it very hot, but he's like it doesn't need to be this cold either.
Doyle (:Wow, that was good. It is cold up there.
Cary (:Yeah, but the sun's out and it gives you a different, you calibrate differently. Like you were saying in Detroit, you if it's above 10 degrees, you can be outside in shorts. Same thing here. So, and if it gets above 30 degrees, then everyone's in shorts and t-shirts out walking their dogs and running. So.
Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Yes. Absolutely. So before we get too much further in the show and cause me to forget, Kerry, what generation do you identify with?
Brad Herda (:Correct. Correct.
Cary (:I'm in Generation Jones.
Brad Herda (:Okay, need clarification on that because that's not one of our categories. That wasn't on the form,
Doyle (:Shana Reese and Jones. right.
Cary (:So for the longest time, I was like, well, I don't feel like a boomer. Because I was born right at the very last year of the boomers. But I also don't feel like Gen X. Those guys are, you know. And it turns out there's a whole bunch of people that feel that way too. And they have been given the name Generation Jones. If you've been born between the mid-50s and the late-60s, then you're in Generation Jones. That's where I
Doyle (:Okay.
Brad Herda (:Careful.
Doyle (:still Brad, that's where you're at your generation Jones. All right. I got it. I got it. I like it. Yeah, we got a new category. It's all about the Joneses, I guess. So I love it. So, so now that we got Brad sidetracked, Carrie, tell our audience how did how did this come to be? Right? How did you How did you envision this? How did this come to be?
Brad Herda (:We got a new category. Awesome.
Cary (:Yup.
Brad Herda (:Wow. Okay.
Cary (:I'm a total geek. I fell in love with computers back before computers were even out and had a number of twists and turns in my several careers. But along the way, I was always really interested in data and analysis and finding cool things using data. And when I was in my last
Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Cary (:My last job, was a global exec at a really big company and was responsible for upgrading all of their HR infrastructure and saw how miserable the state of data, market data was and how much extra time everybody wastes because the data is so bad. And I got to understand why it's bad and said there's a business opportunity here that nobody seems to be focused on. And so that's,
Doyle (:Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Cary (:That was a little bit of the genesis, but at the heart is I'm kind of naturally wired to see business opportunities and, and, you know, I'm wired to find magic and data. So those two came together really nicely.
Doyle (:Nice.
Brad Herda (:Yeah. And, and so HR data. So you're not, you're not glass door. We're not listening to other people. We're not taking a person's opportunity to say, well they pay their pay sucks. You're actually going out and capturing market information from real data sources, not just people pontificating and then compiling that in ways that I don't think anybody can even imagine. how, how did you even
come up to even think about that, to turn that into an opportunity to serve the business markets.
Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Cary (:Well, so there's a whole industry around providing economic data and there's another whole industry in providing pay data to organizations. And they both use really outdated methods. And this was, I founded Wadescape 10 years ago and everything was already, especially in the U S was already online. All you had to do was go out and look at.
know, job ads, and you could see what people were hiring. And then if you could figure out, well, how are they communicating what they're gonna pay through those ads? And then you just scoop it all up. There's technology that we created. It's pretty common now, but at the time it wasn't. Where we just went out and we found, you know, thousands and thousands of sites and we, you know, and that were all,
public-facing sites, we weren't doing anything nefarious. We were just going and looking at what they said. No, no, no, all of this stuff was out there. They were advertisements. The corollary that I use is imagine if you had an army of drones that every day went out and took a picture of every billboard in the country and then put all that data in one database. That's what we do with job ads. So we know how to.
Brad Herda (:You weren't Napster. You weren't Napster. Is that right? Is that what trying to say?
Doyle (:Yeah.
Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Cary (:We know what they say and how they're organized. And then we compile it all into this massive data set. We track over 95 % of all the new jobs in the US in the developed countries. We track jobs in over 200 countries. And we do it every single day. Every day we take a full snapshot of everything.
Brad Herda (:That's cool.
Doyle (:So hold up, hold up. do all of this. Why are people still turning to, I would say, I would say quote unquote traditional methods and not saying, Carrie, what, I'm not calling the audience stupid, but I'm just like, wait a minute. If you're doing all of this behind this, like, why are all these other things out there? And well, tell us more about that. Like what's going on? Like.
Brad Herda (:Cause there's, do I want to call our audience stupid? I don't think I want to, but.
Cary (:Well, that's.
Cary (:You know, different people have different needs for the data. We serve a niche that requires very robust, tightly curated data. If you want to go out, let's say, for example, you're in HVAC tech in Cedar Rapids, Iowa, and you want to find out what should I be making? You can just go out and look at the ads and you'll see what people are offering. But if you're a company that
Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Doyle (:Yeah.
Doyle (:Correct.
Cary (:has construction operations in a number of cities, what you think you're seeing in Cedar Rapids is almost guaranteed to not be what you'd be seeing in Milwaukee, not what you'd be seeing in Detroit. And so that approach doesn't work when you start needing to scale. It also doesn't work when you have specialized skills that you're looking for. And so
Doyle (:Correct.
Mm-hmm.
Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Cary (:That's kind of the opportunity, especially for companies that are like mid-sized companies. they need to manage, pay for their employees pretty carefully, but they are not big enough to have a big, huge compensation department whose full-time job it is to do this. And so you need data that can speak to kind of your interests there.
Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Cary (:You know, the bottom line is, why isn't everybody doing it? Well, not everybody, you know, needs the same thing. And also a lot of people don't know that it's, you know, there's a different way of doing things.
Brad Herda (:So if I own a warehousing distribution organization, 200 employees, and I want to hire a continuous improvement person to come in and just help us get more efficient, more effective, I might have an HR person, but it's not a role we've ever hired for. Is that something that we can go out to Wagescape, do some research, do some things?
and find an opportunity to say, should be in the Milwaukee area. I should be paying this type of thing based on these experiences, based on all, here's the kind of the hierarchy of goods, the good, better, best model scenario.
Cary (:Mm-hmm. Yeah, and you can also find out who else has hired jobs like that. And in your case, what you just described, a continuous improvement person, that could be called a whole bunch of different things, right? And so what are other people calling those kinds of jobs and what skills and experience levels are they looking for and how does that impact what they ought to be paying? What you need in a warehouse environment for continuous improvement, I guarantee you, is totally different than what you need in a hotel, right?
Doyle (:Hmm.
Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Cary (:So, you know, you've now got the ability to be more savvy about what you're working for. And that matters in today's market because you've got, I mean, just in the last five years, the, you know, prior to the pandemic, wages were going up about 3 % a year on average. Really predictable for, you know, most of our careers. That was kind of the, there was a couple blips along the way, but
Brad Herda (:Correct.
Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Cary (:That was pretty much it. Very predictable. Right. And then first of all, a whole bunch of people lost their jobs, but a whole bunch of other people found that they were in demand and companies just started paying to get those people and wages were going up. We were tracking wages. They were going up 30 % a year for the two years, you know, starting with the pandemic, 30%. So we went from 3 % to 30%. Meanwhile, you got all those other people that are employees, you know, that
Brad Herda (:Then 2021 came along.
Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Doyle (:right.
Cary (:haven't lost their jobs and they're looking around going, know, my buddy just got offered, you know, X amount more than what I'm offering. so, and inflation started too, like real inflation started. And so folks are like, I got to keep food on the table. absolutely, hell yeah. I'm going to go down the street for an extra buck an hour or an extra 50 cents an hour. And so the answer then was to throw money at the problem.
Brad Herda (:correct.
Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Cary (:Right. Just start paying people more. Well, after a couple of years of that, you know, some, some of the adults in the room said that's not really sustainable. And so you saw wages, you know, coming back down, but meanwhile, you got all these other people, you know, that are, you know, getting paid, you know, they benefited from the increase in wages. And so companies were having to manage all of that kind of chaos. along the way,
Doyle (:Thank
Doyle (:Right?
Cary (:what was going on, you know, pick on Cedar Rapids again, and Cedar Rapids was very, very different than what was going on in Lincoln, Nebraska. And it was different depending on the job you were looking at. If you were looking at a foreman, it was probably different than if you were looking, you know, at, at just a gopher job, you know? And, so there's not consistency there anymore. So the labor market went and the market for pay went totally out of bounds starting about five years ago. And so if you get it wrong,
Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Doyle (:Right.
Doyle (:Yes.
Cary (:You're running a team or you're running a company and you think you gotta pay through the nose in order to get somebody that's got the skills that you need. You're probably gonna be hamstringing yourself with the costs that you're carrying. But if you have a really critical role and you're in a market that's really tight and you try and really skimp on the pay for that role, you're also gonna hurt yourself because you're not gonna get.
Brad Herda (:Thanks.
Cary (:If it's really a critical role, you're not going to get the kind of person that you need in order to do well in that role. And so you got to stay on top of things and you got to stay on top of things in a way that hasn't been available before. And that's what we do. Right. And so we're just part of, part of that level of transparency and aggregation that hasn't been available.
Brad Herda (:So with your Navy experience and background and things there, do you guys also correlate or translate military experiences and those codes over into layman? Do you work on that transition as well from military to or any of that type of work at all?
Cary (:Not with what we do in Wadescape. I personally am pretty regularly involved in those kinds of things, but more through other nonprofits. I've been pretty heavily involved in helping vets transition into new careers for the last at least 20 years. I've been pretty heavily involved.
Brad Herda (:Cause I find that always to be difficult when I run into a military person coming back in, they have all these great experiences. They got all these things, but the military codes don't mean shit to the guy on the other side of the table. That's trying to hire them. And it's like, how do we can, how do we convert this language to allow that to, to, bring value because that value may not be, it may not be a direct correlation, but it may have a greater value based on what you're looking for than what somebody might think.
Cary (:Right. Right.
Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Cary (:Yeah, I mean, we could go on for a long time about this one because the, and unfortunately this is a problem that, that seems like it's gotten a little bit better literally over the last 20 years, but not nearly where it, it needs to be. you know, when I was in the Navy, I was on submarines and we would pull in, to port and we would have, you know, typically two days where we would have to do all the maintenance, all the repairs, all the change outs.
Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Brad Herda (:Yes.
Doyle (:you
Cary (:We'd have to load up all the food that was needed for the next thing that we were going to do, load up all the consumables and supplies. And the folks that were running all of that were, you know, young officers and senior, senior enlisted that are typically in their twenties, maybe early thirties. And that was just the job, right? That was just what you did. You came in, you lined everything up, you made sure it was all coordinated. You had it planned in advance and everything, but that was just the job, right? And, and now though, that
is an extraordinarily valuable set of skills for operations management, for crisis management, for being organization liaison. I could be working with 15 separate organizations at any one time that all had to be pointed in the same direction and all had to be choreographed. And I was 25 years old when I was doing that. so looking back at it, was like, that's something that the military never tells you how valuable that skill is to
Brad Herda (:All
Doyle (:Mm-hmm. Right.
Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Cary (:to other organizations. I mean, it's like being a project, you know, a program manager on a huge construction project, right? That level of savvy that you gain at a pretty early age, in addition to all kinds of other skills, you know, just to the point around, there's no language to, but there's no reason there can't be. And so that's one of the biggest barriers coming out is the ability to communicate. Here's what I did in terms of anyone else could appreciate.
Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Brad Herda (:Yeah, I was just curious.
Cary (:I mean, I've known people that have hung their heads and were so depressed. mean, hugely accomplished vets thinking I have nothing to offer, you know, any, you know, anyone who's going to want to hire me. I don't know how to do anything other than what I did in the military. I'm like, you have no idea how valuable your skills are.
Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Brad Herda (:Okay, I was just curious if Wadescape took some of that or put any of that data out there as well to correlate dollars. Okay.
Cary (:No, not specific to the military. We make it easy so that you can look at jobs in the government, including the military and jobs outside of it, and be able to kind of do apples to apples comparisons there. But it doesn't get to kind of the kind of issue that you were bringing up.
Brad Herda (:Okay.
Brad Herda (:Okay.
Doyle (:Yeah. Okay. Question for you about trends that you... Yeah, question. Question. I got a question. I got a question. Yeah. Chill out. You just move your chair over to the side. and I are going to have a conversation now. So based on where we are today, February, 2026, what trends are you actually seeing right now that are having a positive impact in the workforce?
Brad Herda (:No shit. No shit, Sherlock. That's what we do here. Questions. Yeah.
Cary (:You
Cary (:Yeah.
Cary (:Positive impact in the workforce?
Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Cary (:Well, there's some pockets, I would say. This is not a good time to be looking at all the positives in the workforce, I'll tell you. There is a high degree of nervousness, and it's been there for a year now. And that nervousness is caused by a number of things, most of which are beyond the control of any organization.
Doyle (:Okay.
Doyle (:I know. I'm aware.
Doyle (:Yes.
Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Cary (:Anytime you get a high degree of nervousness, you have what we're seeing now. You have companies that are scaling back their hiring and you got employees that are scaling back their looking. So they're staying in jobs longer than they would ordinarily and companies are hiring less. Now, interestingly enough, companies are still advertising for a lot of positions, but they're just not hiring as many and they're not hiring as fast. And they're also
Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Doyle (:Correct.
So what do you
Cary (:still trying to work off this hangover from the wage inflation following the pandemic. And so they're offering, they're not cutting pay, but they're offering less for people that they hire. And so now where there are some bright spots, bright spots are there still is relatively historically low unemployment. And so companies still need workers so that it's not like they're not jobs out there.
Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Doyle (:Yeah. Yep.
Brad Herda (:Mm-hmm.
Doyle (:Okay.
Cary (:like if the economy was much worse. There are absolutely opportunities for anyone who wants to get into how to be creative using artificial intelligence tools. Those have become so accessible now. I mean, you know how accessible it is when every time you turn on a video or the TV, there's an ad about how you can start your career over by learning AI and somebody wants you to sign up for their program.
Doyle (:Yes.
Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Brad Herda (:Well, it's like back in the programming days with ITT, whatever that programming company was back in 1973, 74, 75, Start your career at ITT, technical college or technical school or whatever. Okay, this is that all over again.
Cary (:to do that.
Doyle (:Yes, thank you for listening.
Cary (:But there are a ton, there I know a ton of people though that have done exactly that. It's super. mean, all you need is you need initiative, you need courage, and you need the ability to just, you know, enjoy learning something new. You know, so if you, you know, I have a number of friends that have, you know, played out entire careers that then just started over.
Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Cary (:And we're like, hey, there's a whole new world out there that I can do stuff for. You know, I can be somebody's entire marketing department and I can be, you know, a virtual assistant that does the work of 20 executive assistants. can do all, you know, there's all kinds of things that you can do that are really cool using AI now. you know, the flip side of that is companies know it and they know that there's pockets in their organizations that they're not going to have to keep as many people in. so.
Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Cary (:That's why said now is not really a great time to, you know, just go through a whole laundry list of all the great things happening in the workforce because there's lots of threats to employment right now, I would say, and AI is one of them.
Doyle (:So let's talk about what are some, AI is one of the threats. What else is a threat?
Cary (:I think the general nervousness around the direction of the economy and the political environment here in the United States, and I'm not getting on one side or the other of those issues. Right. And so, and we don't even allow that in the company. There's like very few, I set up the company to run the way I wanted it to run, and there's very few hard rules, but one of them is we never talk politics in the company, ever. And so, but it is a fact that
Brad Herda (:Yeah, not a political show. We will steer you away from that, no problem.
Doyle (:Yeah, that's good. We won't let you.
Cary (:There's a lot of nervousness and a lot of ambiguity because of a political environment that folks don't have control and they can't foresee where it's going. And so that's a threat because anytime you have uncertainty, people pull back and they don't spend as much, they don't take risks as much, they just kind of hunker down and that's not good for growth. It kind of becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy, right? It's bad for growth and it's bad for prosperity.
Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Doyle (:Yep.
Brad Herda (:So before we get to our rapid fire area here, Carrie, how do people find Wadescape or to have conversations or if there's some military folks listening, how do they find you as well to potentially say, hey, how can I, how can you help a brother out type of scenario?
Cary (:I'm happy to spend as much time as anyone needs on that question. We're easy to find. Wayscape.com is our website. And if you go out to LinkedIn, you can look me up directly. And I always respond.
Brad Herda (:Yeah, what you've created there, when I just did some research, I had a client looking for some stuff. like, let me go out there and see what's out there. Just ask some query things. It's pretty spectacular. And it's very, very, very, very affordable from even a one-time use perspective. Way better than trying to go out and find your local HR person and see what they can find and work through all the bias. I'm going to say that's...
Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Cary (:Hmm.
Brad Herda (:This is usually isn't a plugging show, but I will say you don't have the bias in your product that people have when they're talking about job roles. You can get an unbiased. is what the data says piece to it. And then you can make a decision from there. Do I want to pay more or want to pay less? That's what I love about what you have there because it's an unbiased. Here's what's going on. What do you want me to write? It's it's
Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Cary (:Yeah, it's data driven and it's based on a massive amount of data. And so it's not based on anecdotes too often. In fact, it's the norm where somebody goes and gets a job for a competitor. And then the word gets back that they got an offer that's X number of dollars an hour more than what they were getting paid. Well, whether or not that's real or not, but then that becomes kind of the...
you know, the state of the market within the organization, because so-and-so left and got paid a huge amount, you know, a huge amount more. Well, maybe they did, you know, maybe they did, and maybe they didn't. But even if they did, it doesn't mean that that's what everybody else is paying. And that's not, doesn't mean that that's what you got to pay. In fact, you'd be kind of, you know, it wouldn't be very wise to just, you know, make decisions by anecdote. So.
Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Brad Herda (:All right. Here we go rapid fire. What's the dumbest thing you ever heard in a meeting?
Cary (:That's a pretty long list.
Doyle (:Yeah.
Brad Herda (:The public came top of mind and you were hesitant to share.
Doyle (:Yeah, it's all good.
Cary (:You
Brad Herda (:That's okay.
Cary (:I don't know, I've been in lots of meetings where it was pretty clear that the person hadn't heard the bit of wisdom that it's, if you don't know something, it's better to keep your mouth shut than to open your mouth and let the rest of the world know, right? And so...
Doyle (:Right.
Brad Herda (:What's your go-to excuse when running late?
Cary (:Normally I just tell people I'm running late. Sometimes I get so absorbed in what I'm doing that I miss the fact that I missed a meeting and I normally am really upfront about that. If I have to stretch it, I'll blame traffic.
Doyle (:Yeah.
Brad Herda (:Okay, beer or bourbon?
Cary (:I'm wine guy. So either one, depending on the situation, when we're watching the Super Bowl this weekend, because it is its Super Bowl weekend, it's going to be beer. And when I'm out with my buddies, it's bourbon.
Doyle (:alright.
Brad Herda (:Okay. Go to curse word.
Doyle (:Okay.
Cary (:Fuck.
Doyle (:Solid.
Brad Herda (:That's the leader in the clubhouse. Weird. Favorite candy.
Cary (:were there's
Brad Herda (:Hmm. Joneson, huh? Thanks.
Doyle (:Yeah, yeah.
Brad Herda (:Early Burner Night Owl.
Cary (:no, no.
Brad Herda (:Dream job as a kid.
Cary (:astronaut.
Brad Herda (:Okay, close. were an astronaut under the sea. You were an astronaut under the sea. So I mean, you kind of live that a little bit. Just the opposite direction.
Cary (:I was a child of the space age. Yep.
Cary (:I tell people if I had had good eyes, I would have gone aviation. And I'd either be a commercial pilot now or I'd be dead. But my eyes weren't good enough, so I went submarines and flew really slow under the water.
Brad Herda (:Okay.
Brad Herda (:slow and quiet. Most overused phrase at work.
Doyle (:You
Cary (:we could just do the whole bingo game on this. Like, think out of the box or, you know, put a pin in it, right.
Doyle (:Always got one.
Doyle (:You
Brad Herda (:Put a pin in it. Put it in the parking lot.
Doyle (:I'm
Brad Herda (:best pizza topping. Please don't say pineapple.
Cary (:Okay, my wife loves Hawaiian pizza, right? And we get separate pizza. Mine is a sausage and pepperoni. I'm a traditional guy. And depending on where we get it from, sometimes extra cheese.
Doyle (:Yeah. Yeah.
Brad Herda (:Okay.
Brad Herda (:Okay, fair enough. Last thing you Googled.
Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Cary (:What generation am I?
Doyle (:Hahaha!
He's jonesing, he's jonesing!
Cary (:yeah, yeah.
Brad Herda (:Favorite TV show to binge.
Doyle (:I love it.
Cary (:there's so many good ones out now. I just got done with the third, last night at one o'clock in the morning, I got done with the third season of Tulsa King with Sylvester Stallone and he is amazing in that show. It's a Taylor Sheridan show, so it's really well written. I love that show. There's another one that's got Tom Hylston in it called The Night Manager, which is a British show.
Doyle (:Mmm.
Mm-hmm.
Brad Herda (:Hmm. Okay.
Doyle (:Okay.
Cary (:And it's really good too. It's about a guy who was a hotel manager who becomes a spy for MI5.
Brad Herda (:and what platform is that on?
Cary (:I don't know. I access everything through Amazon. So it's not, you know, I don't know what the underlying channel was.
Brad Herda (:if you had enough.
Brad Herda (:Okay.
Doyle (:Mm-hmm. Yep. OK.
Brad Herda (:Perfect, we can find it, no big deal. Favorite movie quote.
Cary (:We're going to need a bigger boat.
Doyle (:You
Brad Herda (:favorite music.
Doyle (:You
Cary (:As if there's a choice? Anything from the 80s, man.
Brad Herda (:Okay. Favorite sport.
Doyle (:Mmm.
Brad Herda (:Okay, so which are you a wild guy? Or are you something from someplace else as you were growing up?
Cary (:No, we love, our whole family loves going to hockey games. So I wouldn't say that we like are rabid fans that follow every game, but we love going to hockey games. We love the whole experience. We love the sport. So yeah, we're fans for the wild, but I just love the excitement of the game.
Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Doyle (:Mm-hmm. Okay.
Brad Herda (:It's a great game. It's a fun. It's much better in person than TV nowadays. Although the Olympics is going to be nice because they won't have all the ads on the side of the boards that are distract you all over the place, which would be very nice.
Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Doyle (:Yes.
Cary (:Yeah, mean that favorite sport thing goes out the window when the Olympics come on, because then it's the Olympics.
Doyle (:Then it's skeleton and luge.
Brad Herda (:that's, I think tonight bucket list vacation location.
Doyle (:Yeah.
Cary (:I'm really lucky. I've been to a ton of places. The last job I had, I went through two entire passports books because I traveled all over the place. So Egypt would be one. I want to go see the pyramids. Vietnam would be another one. I've known a lot of people from Vietnam. I would love to take my son to both China and India. I've been to both those places, but I haven't. They're both huge. And so there's tons, tons to learn from.
Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Brad Herda (:Lots to do.
Cary (:from that. I'd love to do the walk of Santiago that ends at Santiago de Compostela, so the pilgrimage in Europe. And was going to do that a couple of years ago and it fell through. So that's a bucket list thing.
Brad Herda (:Okay.
Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Brad Herda (:Buddy of mine did that a couple of years ago. He said it was very, very powerful.
Cary (:Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yep. I know a number of people.
Brad Herda (:Living or dead, who would you want to have a conversation with?
Cary (:Jesus Christ.
Doyle (:It is.
Brad Herda (:popular answer. And then after we get after that conversation with Jesus Christ, absolutely Ginger and Marianne.
Doyle (:You're gonna ask us one.
Doyle (:You
Brad Herda (:You've just went and had your conversation, and now you get to come back to that.
Doyle (:Ball yeah!
Cary (:Both.
Brad Herda (:Doyle (32:32.334)
Yeah.
Cary (:Why stop at one, right?
Brad Herda (:wow, Mrs. Howell sitting on the background. Perfect, great.
Doyle (:That's awesome. That's awesome. That's fantastic.
Brad Herda (:that was very good. Well played, Kerry. Well played.
Doyle (:Well played, for sure.
Cary (:Alright.
Brad Herda (:So yes, thanks for being on the show this week. We really appreciate it. I can't say enough about your product and what you have created. I promote it to people that I talk to when they're hiring and doing different things that you just need to go look at this because just just go spend spend the time and dollars to get real information versus just somebody's opinion. And I cannot stress that enough. So thank you for what you do. And thank you for being on the show.
Doyle (:What?
Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Cary (:Thanks for everything you guys do. You're making a huge difference in a ton of people's lives. So thank you very much and it was a pleasure to be here.
Brad Herda (:We appreciate that. Thanks.
Doyle (:Yeah, thank you.
