Episode 156
Hey Boomers; How do you stop the dumpster fire
We're not here to sugarcoat it—some of the worst dumpster fires we see in business start at the top. And we know, because we’ve either helped put them out or accidentally started a few ourselves.
This episode came out of a real conversation about leadership gone sideways—owners jumping in to save the day when what they really need to do is get out of the way. From a 6:15 a.m. client text to job site chaos that didn’t need to happen, we broke down how leaders (especially ones clinging to control) often create the very problems they’re trying to fix.
We called out the difference between leading from trust and leading from fear, and why trying to be the hero might be hurting your people more than helping them. Whether it’s not training thoroughly, not letting go, or stepping into every fire thinking only you can fix it—that pattern keeps your business from scaling and your people from growing.
We also hit on why boomers get picked on (and why it’s not just a boomer issue), how business owners get bored when things are running well, and what to do when your ego is telling you no one can do it better than you.
If you're frustrated, tired, or wondering why the wheels keep falling off, this episode is for you. It’s not about blame—it’s about recognizing patterns and shifting from chaos mode to actual leadership.
Highlights:
- The "arsonist and firefighter" employee pattern.
- What makes leaders jump into messes they could've avoided.
- Why letting go feels impossible for some business owners.
- The leadership cost of ego and boredom.
- Delegation vs. dumping: where it goes wrong.
- Why leading from personal power beats title power every time.
Know someone who's stuck in the chaos loop? Send this their way. Then hit follow and leave a quick review—so we can keep bringing you the real stuff.
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Transcript
Hey everyone, welcome back to this episode of the Blue Collar BS podcast. I am your cohost Brad along with the one, the only, masterful master coach himself.
Steve Doyle (:Steve, I am getting a little better at this. can be taught. I can be taught.
Brad Herda (:There you go. You hit the cue. You're getting better at this, Steve. You're getting better at this.
You are getting better at this. So you were at conference, our corporate conference a couple of weeks ago, did a little bit of traveling, a little bit of wine and dining, a little bit of award winning stuff. I don't know, did win an award this year or no? No, nothing.
Steve Doyle (:Yep.
and
Steve Doyle (:Nah, nah, not not there. I've gotten some other stuff, but not through there. So we're always an award winner. There's always something to win.
Brad Herda (:Okay, great. So we are. There's always something to win. Sometimes you got to pay for it. Sometimes you just got to apply.
Steve Doyle (:yeah, that pay for is through your work and dedication, not financially. We don't pay financially for these things. We don't pay for participation bullshit awards.
Brad Herda (:Well, sometimes you do. It depends on the associations you're part of.
Steve Doyle (:Well, I guess that could be at play, but that's not how we win awards.
Brad Herda (:Okay, perfect. Awesome. So pre show, we were trying to come up, we're working on some topics and trying to come up with some things and you were, we were talking about some assessments and maybe what's going on in your world and you were talking about leadership and teams and how how leaders are bitching and complaining about, well, we got to go fix this again. And it was going to be a complete shit show. And so we're going to name this title. Hey, boomers, how do you stop the dumpster fire? And to your point, it's not just boomers, it's just leaders in general.
Steve Doyle (:Yeah.
Steve Doyle (:Yeah.
Brad Herda (:when they're at the top. So let's go through an example of what we're talking about with these dumpster fires that you're seeing or conversations you're having with your clients and prospects.
Steve Doyle (:Yeah. Yeah, so I've had these both with clients with prospects currently right now. There's a lot of conversations that I am having around. I literally was talking with somebody the other day. I literally had the in the person said I literally had to intervene. It wasn't figuratively, it was literally literally literally had the conversation actualities specifics. Anyways, moving right on.
Brad Herda (:I'm glad it wasn't figuratively. That's great.
Steve Doyle (:The conversation was, just had to stop. I had to go over to where, you my team was doing the work and I just stopped another shit show from happening. Like, why can't I find good talent? Why can't I find these young fucking kids to get up and do the damn work? Cause they all just want to be keyboard jockeys and tell everybody what to do. And I was like, And
As I'm listening to this person explain what their frustration is and overall with a lot of different aspects, it just really resonates with the, hey, this isn't a always an employee problem. It starts at the top because you believe you have to show up to stop the shit show from happening.
Brad Herda (:Yes, and that is delegation, is control, that is training, is onboarding, that is expectation setting, is leadership, is the effing matter. There's all of those things that happen and I have watched it. I've got
Steve Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Steve Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Brad Herda (:this morning, 6.30 this morning, actually 6.15 this morning, texts are starting to fly with a client, with an employee who doesn't want to communicate with the supervisor, there's personality conflicts, different things. And like we went through this months ago, it's emotionally charged and right away it's like, my God, I'm like, guys, just step back, chill, just let it go. It'll be fine. It'll calm down. Yes, we got things happening. Just take the emotion out of it. Let's just.
Steve Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Brad Herda (:At the end of the day, have the conversation, set the tone, and let it be on the employee to make a decision. Are they going to play by the rules or are they not going to play by the rules? That's a them choice, not a you choice.
Steve Doyle (:Yeah, but bread.
Steve Doyle (:Well, that's it. I would challenge that because it's brand image. It's the company that we are also a part, the owners that may have issues with this. This is their baby. This is their brand. And I can't let it go. Babies are all babies. Flat out, babies are ugly. Just flat out. I'm just putting that out there right now. Babies be ugly. Just plain and simple. I don't care. Babies are ugly.
Brad Herda (:And the baby's ugly often. So let's move on with that. Let's just.
Brad Herda (:For those listening that episode remember that come let's see here June Where is that June? 27 so in two weeks Remember that when you see that podcast with an image of a Jen Jen Z worker that's out there Remember that baby is ugly
Steve Doyle (:you
It's funny.
Steve Doyle (:I have told that person babies are ugly all the time. it's a healthy debate. Anyways, back to businesses that often people's businesses, their baby businesses are ugly. All right. But there is brand image that people want to protect and portray and they believe these, for the majority, the conversations I've been having are with boomers that their businesses aren't
successful unless they are intervening. They have to intervene at every point because
Brad Herda (:The opposite of that is 100 % accurate.
Steve Doyle (:The-
You
Brad Herda (:Your business will be completely successful when you don't have to be in it every day.
Steve Doyle (:100 % agree.
What are some strategies? Back up, let's back up. Yep.
Brad Herda (:So I guess I just want to differentiate here, Because sometimes we have employees that become the arsonist and the firefighter, right? Where they are setting their own fires and they got to be the hero along this. We're not talking about that type of leadership. We're talking about the leaders that just can't let it go because they see the one thing that was done
Steve Doyle (:Yeah.
Steve Doyle (:Correct.
Brad Herda (:five years ago that led to a disaster that something changed or where they're completely out of the loop on a process change or a industry requirement or a OSHA requirement that may have changed along the way because they're not following every day and also said, oh my God, this is the worst thing ever happening. So I gotta go and be the hero to save everything and make sure that we don't waste the $20,000 error that likely wouldn't happen anyhow.
Steve Doyle (:the
Steve Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Brad Herda (:But we need to feel we need to make ourselves feel important type leader is I guess is what we're trying to say. Is that is that a fair summary? OK. So I have clients in this space right now that are on the right. We're dealing with some stuff and it's like you trust the individual. Let's get through it. There were some.
Steve Doyle (:Yeah, absolutely fair summary.
Steve Doyle (:I I know. It's like
Brad Herda (:Again, another client, some more texts this morning, some employee issues, some things like you're not going to like this answer, but just let it go. I know that the person sending this information today pissed you off and not doing the things that you've agreed to, but let it go. Results are due on Friday. They're due at the end of the week. You'll find out on Monday. Deal with this. Deal with it on Monday when we whether the results were met or not met, because if all of a sudden there's a surprise and the results are met.
Steve Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Brad Herda (:then whatever happened for all those other things doesn't matter. It might have got you angry, might have been the wrong time, might have been a bad thing, might not be what you agreed to, but now I can disconnect those two things from the leadership perspective. I can talk about the results, and I'm not achieving results, I can get into the behaviors of not achieving the results. If I'm achieving the results and I still don't have the right behaviors, then I can still adjust the behaviors, but say, keep doing the results.
Steve Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Brad Herda (:But setting that expectation is vastly important. That to me is the biggest thing to keep owners out of the way. And I guarantee you those employees wanted you nowhere near that job site in any way, shape or form. And when they left and when that owner left that job site, they were in the trailer. Yeah. Going man, we could have this done 15 minutes faster. We didn't have to do it this way. We just scrapped so much and now we're going to yell that for having to get more material or whatever it is that they
Steve Doyle (:absolutely.
Steve Doyle (:I'm Effing.
Brad Herda (:Pseudo saved from the shit show happening the dumpster fire
What are you thinking, guys?
Steve Doyle (:Mm-hmm. Yeah. So why do you think, or what makes you believe that, I will say, owners take that mentality?
Brad Herda (:think a lot. So I'm going to equate this to our own businesses a little bit, right? So we find our niche, we find our voice, we find our thing, and then it works. But then we get bored with what works. So let's try something new. Let's go find some new technology. Oh, let's try this. Let's go do this. Let's go do that. Let's make this happen. I think that when things are running really, really well, owners get bored.
and they're looking for something to be engaged with and feeling the want and the need to be part of something versus just being having the self-awareness of accepting the greatness they've created and taking the win and saying, cool, great. Maybe there's some philanthropy I can do. Maybe there's something I can do for the industry. Maybe there's a board I can go be part of.
Steve Doyle (:Okay.
Brad Herda (:because I don't need to be here all the time and I can find better use of my time than just telling my employees, my God, you're going to fuck it up again.
Steve Doyle (:Right, right, there's that aspect.
boredom. I.
Brad Herda (:What's on your side of that equation?
Steve Doyle (:My side of that equation kind of leads to the, it falls into the ego trap. Nobody can do it as good as me.
Not that I'm bored, but nobody can do it as good as me. I've already trained them. I've told these people what to do. Let's put that to the side. We'll bring that back. We'll wind that back up. That's another component of it. But in my runnings with this, there is a strong ego component of the individual as well.
Brad Herda (:Did you? Did you train him?
Brad Herda (:So are we identifying a potential behavioral pattern from a character standpoint versus a... Okay.
Steve Doyle (:Mm hmm. Correct. Correct. There is there are some behavioral patterns that do show up. And when we bringing this back, when we said we've trained them, inadvertently, we've left things out.
Why have we left things out? We've showed them 90 plus percent of the way to do it. This is how I want you to do it.
Brad Herda (:Well, I'm going to disagree that it's even that much.
Steve Doyle (:Well, OK. I'm in agreement that there could be less. I was being generous.
Brad Herda (:Right? Think about where you are right now. Think about right now if you are sitting at your desk or sitting at your kitchen table or on your treadmill or whatever listening to this show. If you had to tell somebody right now how to get to target the nearest target from where you're at using your vehicle, how would you tell them to do that? You're going to miss 98 % of the steps along the way about
Steve Doyle (:yeah, completely.
Brad Herda (:I need the keys, unlock the door steps, how I get out of the building, all those things you're going to miss completely in that process. You're going take.
Steve Doyle (:because you're just going to tell them pull out your phone, put it in your app, and there you go. That's how you get there.
Brad Herda (:Right, but I didn't walk off. didn't unbuckle. I didn't lock the doors. didn't press on the brake. I didn't put a seatbelt on. I didn't do any of those other things.
Steve Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm. Yep. And some of those things, for defense of those that could be taking offense to this is, the stuff that we are going to admit are just things that we just naturally think we do because we've done it so often. And so some of those, I'll call them natural reflexes because we made them natural.
Brad Herda (:the unconscious behaviors that we have.
Steve Doyle (:Yes, yep, we've gotten to that point where it's just like, just do it. I don't know, I just know how to do it. So as I'm explaining it to someone, or for those that really like the term mansplaining, I gotta mansplain it to someone of.
Brad Herda (:I don't know if anybody likes that term, just to be honest with you, Steve.
Steve Doyle (:Not on this show, but you know, just for shiggles, just for shiggles. You know, for those that that, you know, might like that. I already lost my train of thought. That's how good it was. That's how good it was. Yes.
Brad Herda (:Yeah, but the mansplaining piece is the right. there's a balancing act. There's a balancing between what is. Quote unquote common knowledge versus what is shared knowledge and and that common knowledge is learned typically by watching doing understanding the culture, just getting hurt, right? We don't we don't put our hands on every baby puts their hand on the stove door.
Steve Doyle (:Right.
Steve Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Brad Herda (:because they don't know any different, but they do it once and then they stop or twice, maybe three times if they're slow, right? It's like, hey, oh, that's hot. Don't touch that. Okay, great. You learn after time after a period of time to find out or you right. Is that is that metal hot? Is it what did you just get done welding it? Oh, let me let me just tut instead of just grabbing it right away and go, holy shit, you're not going to do that in that environment. So there's some of those cultural learnings and situational learnings. The other part of
Steve Doyle (:Yep.
Mm-hmm.
Steve Doyle (:Mm-hmm. Yep.
Brad Herda (:you've got to give the specific examples of what to do and what feeds and speeds you need to run your wires at and different things. You shouldn't have to tell them that I got a wire brush it every time to clean it off or make sure it's a clean joint or make sure I got the right bevels, right? That should be some of that becomes common awareness. Read the print before I weld it.
Steve Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Steve Doyle (:Well, there's.
Just weld it. Just, just, just weld it. I don't care. Just, just weld it together. Just, just fix it. Just do it. Just do it. So coming back. So there's, there's that all that, that whole component there, but coming back to that, that the other aspect that I, I'm often him in him in and hung about.
is just how much there is that we as owners are not as relatable to our employees.
And from the standpoint, we as owners believe we have to worry about everything. And we have a bias towards our employees that they just have to go do the job. And we have to worry about everything. So that component comes into play fairly frequently in the business because the owners are so worried. They're worried about bottom line. They don't hit the bottom line.
I can't afford things in the business. It could be, want to add more employees or I want to do something nice for my employees, but because these two shitheads over here shot the business, shot the job down, now I've got to make up that money somewhere else.
Brad Herda (:Or actually, no one understand what happened and issue the change order. Maybe, possibly, potentially. Maybe the two shitheads did what the job superintendent asked them to do from the customer viewpoint and didn't know anything about that because you always say, oh, just take care of it because Bill's a good guy. So we just do it. And then you go, well, what the hell did you do that for? And it's your inconsistent behavior because I haven't proceduralized anything.
Steve Doyle (:I mean, there's that too.
Steve Doyle (:Okay.
Steve Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Steve Doyle (:Yup. Mm-hmm.
Brad Herda (:or systematized anything that today it's good and tomorrow it's bad.
Steve Doyle (:Yep. Yep.
Brad Herda (:Because today today it's really good because the bank account is full tomorrow. It's bad because I paid everybody.
Steve Doyle (:Yep. Yep.
Brad Herda (:Right. And that and that's managing, right? You got to go through that from a leadership ownership perspective of understanding risks associated with it. And you can't manage every risk that being a business owner is the risk you were playing the Derek Jeter probably Hall of Fame speech or whatever it was right about about failure, about whatever it is. Yeah, you're going to make mistakes. You're going to fail. And there are some mistakes that are going to cost you hundreds of thousands of
Steve Doyle (:Right.
Steve Doyle (:yeah, before you.
Mm-hmm.
Brad Herda (:possibly millions of dollars along the way. You won't do it again. You'll be cautious the next time it happens. But that doesn't mean you need to be the one watching over it or stepping into the process to do so. You as a leader should be empowering your team to be successful. And from a leadership philosophy, if you're leading as from a
Steve Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Right?
Mm-hmm.
Steve Doyle (:bright. Yep.
Steve Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Brad Herda (:fear position, you're leading through title power. I am the owner, therefore you shall do what I do. And your employees are afraid of you or they're afraid because of the title power versus you as the human being and your personal influences. They're not, those are two very different leadership mindsets and two very different leadership cultures. The leader that leads through personal power and happens to be the owner.
Steve Doyle (:Right.
Steve Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Brad Herda (:is going to outperform the leader from fear every time all the time over a long period over a long period of time. Short term, maybe not. Right. It's like the stock market over the long haul. It outperforms everything today. Something else may have Bitcoin may have outperformed the S &P. I don't know. I didn't look today, but
Steve Doyle (:yeah. Mm-hmm. Yep. Yep. Mm-hmm. 100%.
Steve Doyle (:Mm-hmm. Whatever it is.
Brad Herda (:That's that leadership style and leading from a failures that failures your success is theirs.
Steve Doyle (:Mm-hmm. Yep, absolutely. Absolutely.
Brad Herda (:And you control how many fucking dumpster fires are created.
Steve Doyle (:Mmm. It's just the number of employees.
Brad Herda (:which goes into the training, which goes into the expectation setting, which goes into the providing authority, being available to listen and understand and seek to understand versus just giving answers. Just go do it that way. Well.
Steve Doyle (:Right. Yep.
Steve Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Steve Doyle (:Just do what I told you to do and you'll be okay. Why can't you just do what I told you to do?
Brad Herda (:Because I didn't tell you about the four other things that were there that you wouldn't let me talk about, because you want to be out of your office, because you're a high D instead of a S or a C that wants to know information. So I just I'm busy. So just tell me the thing you need done and I'll go do it.
Steve Doyle (:Hmm. Hmm.
Steve Doyle (:Right.
Mm-hmm. Absolutely. I totally can resonate with that. Totally.
Brad Herda (:So needing to understand, right? Being able to adapt your behaviors to your staff members is vitally important to eliminate those dumpster fires from even beginning.
Steve Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Steve Doyle (:Mm-hmm. Couldn't agree more. Couldn't agree more. So.
Brad Herda (:So, yes, we're picking on boomers here, but it's every leader.
Steve Doyle (:It is every leader. isn't just boomers. Right now the conversations are with lot of boomers that we're having.
Brad Herda (:Right, because they're frustrated out of fear and anxiety with all the uncertainty that's going on around and they're nearing the end. I assure you that 25 years ago, if they were in that position, they wouldn't give two shits about it.
Steve Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Steve Doyle (:No, they would not. They totally would not. just, they would bury their head and figure it out and move on. Now they're raising their hand going, I'm tired. I'm exhausted. Help me out.
Brad Herda (:So put together an organization that can provide you options and you'll be in a much better spot.
Steve Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Agreed. Well, thank you, for coming on this program.
Brad Herda (:So, all right, Mr. Doyle, that is a great topic for today. Let's not start any more dumpster fires. Let's lead. Let's lead as leaders, not through my title or through my ego. And you will find significantly more results. And for those listening, if you need that support in any way, shape or form, don't hesitate to reach out to the show or Steve or I individually. We have lots of things available to support you in that path. So.
Steve Doyle (:You
Steve Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Steve Doyle (:Mm-hmm.
Brad Herda (:Mr. Doyle, as always, enjoy the great Motor City and we will talk to you soon.
Steve Doyle (:And Brad, you enjoy Milwaukee as well.
Brad Herda (:All right, thanks.
