How Experiential Learning is Changing Career Decisions with Jim Michlig

brad_herda:

With him through that activity in what he is doing with the high schools and Connect Academy in the Miskuigo Norway School district, This guy has got so much information and talent to provide us today that I am super excited to have you here, Jim. so let's have some fun today. Welcome.

jim_michlig:

Brand, thank you. looking forward to the conversation and definitely appreciate all your kind words, so hopefully I can live up to the hip that she just put out there,

brad_herda:

I am very confident if you actually share all the knowledge you have, but our pre meeting conversation that this is going to be a a massively impactful episode not only for the younger generations that might be listening, but also for the business owners to get a better understanding of of what's really going on in the world today, so I'm super excited and since Steve's not here to ask the first question or miss it, I'm going to take that for him. and the first question we typically ask our guests is which Ration do you identify with and you can either talk about it for what generation you were born into or what generation you might behave better with

jim_michlig:

And in Brad, I know the conversation we had before this. This was a little hard for me to say out loud. but for the data and the research that's there. it states that I am a millennial. I always thought I was more of a zilennial in between the Gen extras and the millennial, but data in the research says that I'm a millennial, but I will

brad_herda:

So

jim_michlig:

say

brad_herda:

a

jim_michlig:

you

brad_herda:

personal

jim_michlig:

talk.

brad_herda:

bubble.

jim_michlig:

Yeah, Writed the bubble, I will say, Though definitely Grew up with my grandfather being a union electrician, tinkering in his workshop, helping him on job sites. Mom is a hard working Gen X Cer, so I would definitely say I kind of have a lot of traits and attributes that you would normally equate to what we even say to the baby boomers of the Gen X generation, and not some of the traits that we attribute to the millennials that are out there nowadays.

brad_herda:

I would. I would agree, Just knowing you a little bit that I do that. That would be a valid statement that your behaviors aren't necessary in alignment with the generation upon what you were born in. I would agree so

jim_michlig:

Thank

brad_herda:

you can

jim_michlig:

you.

brad_herda:

take. you can take. You can take that as a win today. if you like.

jim_michlig:

There we go. one one win for the day In loving it.

brad_herda:

So, Um, talk to me a little bit about what the Masquigo Norway school district has done with the Connect Academy. What makes that program unique to your area in to provide opportunity not only for the businesses but for the young young adults that are in the district

jim_michlig:

Yeah, it's a great great question as we look at what is Connect Academy and we were asked the question just over five years ago. Now how do we take this little thing we were doing in our system and help our community help all students and help all of our state holders with our business partners and everyone that's involved. And what I'm kind of getting at with that is, we did have work based learning programs. We had opportunities for speakers to come in and talk to our kids. We're finding five years ago is that it was happening in silos, Because we are large organization

brad_herda:

Right

jim_michlig:

were one of the large high schools in the state of Wisconsin, And so if you add this teacher or new, this person, you may have the opportunity and we just weren't stream lining experiential learning for all students to help them make Thos inform decisions about life after high school. And so we sat down with a team or district leadership team, brought in some strong community partners, and through Those conversations Connect Academy was born. What is Connect Academy? It's the umbrella program for all experiential learning. It's to help guide our students through our system so that they can make inform decisions when they leave us about the right career path for them, because as we we know when we've got conversations, Brad, like we are in a work force crisis

brad_herda:

Right.

jim_michlig:

in for us to wait four years or more after they graduate High school to enter the work for us, Because we're floundering around and still not knowing what to do, we felt we were doing injustice to our students and our community and our business partners. So we developed Connect Academy, which is our umbrella program for all experiential learning.

brad_herda:

Okay,

jim_michlig:

It gives our business partners or students our parents or community members a place to go to to ask the right questions or ask the questions to the right people. I should say

brad_herda:

Got ya.

jim_michlig:

so that we connecting and guide In the right directions for whether it is an intern ship, where students are on coming to school for part of the day, and working and getting that experience and certification that align to future careers, or it's our career fair where we are just bringing in people from the field to talk to our students about just even classes they should be taking. If these are fields they want to go into before they even leave our system.

brad_herda:

So you've said experience just for for clarification for our audience that might be listening, Just kind of go through and briefly explain what experiential learning means, Um, because that might be a new term to some of the folks, Um, that are listening, and you know, experiential learning to many might be on the job on the job training, and that might might care like that might not. so give us an explanation of experiential learning.

jim_michlig:

Yeah, experience, a learning is on the job, training, Experience or learning is actually experience in doing. We've broken it down to six levels, one being a very light touch and six being the heaviest touch. where students are on a job site working for an employer. We have a lot of students that are working with local contractors getting paid, then getting a useful apprenticeship through the Department of Work Force Development.

brad_herda:

Cool.

jim_michlig:

And so that is experience al learning. But then also We have some activities and different tours and stuff that we go on to where the kids can see firsthand. So it's a lighter touch, but it's still getting the experience of the work world of the professional world, not Justin inside our brick and mortar buildings where education happens.

brad_herda:

Okay, all right, thank you for that explanation. So you put the program together five years ago. How does the relationship worked between the school district and the business leaders and the businesses in the community? What does? What is that relationship or how did you go about fostering that To get the support from the community

jim_michlig:

Great great question. you know, I guess the first thing you say is how did you go about kind of flashing or getting some of that. Miskuigo has always been very fortunate to have a strong relationship with its Chamber of Commerce Chrisandernfort, Over there, the executive director is very passionate and we have an Education for Mentoring committee. So there was one avenue that we just connected with in Bridget, Community in role is a very strong community partner And they kind of sat down with our team and helped us in vision and dream. How do we get bigger? But outside having some just initial relationships with people who have always worked with our school system, I would say it's been the grind, you know. I mean, it's at the end of the day you want to get it done. It's no different than selling a product right. I'm selling to our business partners that there is a return on investment If they work with his seventeen year old kid, That there will be light at the end of the tunnel. Unfortunately, for all business partners, it might not be in your one. It could be three to four years after you start working with me, But but just not King on the doors, making the phone calls, making connections with the Home Building Trades Foundation, Going to bread. Where do we first meet? It was the Metropolitan

brad_herda:

Builder?

jim_michlig:

Builders

brad_herda:

Yeah,

jim_michlig:

Associate

brad_herda:

builder association

jim_michlig:

Media,

brad_herda:

B, to be M.

jim_michlig:

Yeah,

brad_herda:

Brandhid, made the connection, If I'm not mistaken,

jim_michlig:

Yeah, yeah, Bret, Just you know, talking to Brett and Bret, going, Jim, I don't know if this fits or doesn't fit. Would you be willing to come? and the answer is always Yes. You know how how do you network to help support and from the school perspective, And just my philosophy is if I'm not out there talking to our business community, I don't really know what they need and I'm just throwing darts at a dart board. Hopefully something sticks. so just the you know, we had some strong partnerships, but then you know, since he started, I'm always knocking on doors and finding where I can connect with our business community to just help us all work together.

brad_herda:

So over that five year period from start to today, has there been a consistent Um, a consistent need brought forward from your business partners as to what they're looking for in in that employment person, In that ability in that person that they want to try to hire or employ. Are there? Are there characteristics or commonality or there a common theme that people are looking for?

jim_michlig:

Ah, I would say, the most common that spans all sixteen career clusters is they want to know if the kid's going to show up

brad_herda:

Uh huh,

jim_michlig:

for our most. so, I mean, you tell me I'm wrong, and I say the kid's going to show up. I think they want to know that any human being is going to show up and show it by time. So that's the the biggest theme I can say, I will tell your listeners today. we track the soft skills and an employ Ability survey Here for all of our students Working rated number two on our survey is our students ability to show up and be on time. So it's like two and three. So

brad_herda:

So

jim_michlig:

the mcigonaiy choolstudents are perfect, but they're going to show up. So you have someone that you can work with.

brad_herda:

So let's let's just talk about that just a little bit right. Let's just talk about that show up on time piece to it And you've been in education and school and teaching, and you know you grew up and you're unfortunately. you're millennial, um, right about what time means and

jim_michlig:

I won a lost Brad.

brad_herda:

I know, but that's okay. You still want. you still want because you don't behave like that. Um, right because you do have that respect for time. You do have that show up. Be there? be present, M, and I guess Is there a? What's what's the take or what do you see as to why the de valuing of that commitment might be going on in in our students in our work for In As what have you seen from that perspective right?

jim_michlig:

Yeah, again, there's no, So I have concrete data for you that we can talk about, And then there's stuff that I just don't have concrete. These

brad_herda:

Right,

jim_michlig:

are observations at number time we are, and from what I'm starting to observe is that we are in a fast pace society and there's multiple things going on, and I would say this is fact, every parent for wants the best for their children, and so some of what I think kind of trickles into The lack of respect for time or showing up is families and students and just humans, in general trying to do everything

brad_herda:

Okay,

jim_michlig:

they are trying to be a part of this activity, this job, this, this, this and this, and they spread themselves thin and I think it. it's also a little hard for them to commit to one thing. They all want to know. they want to have the direct answer. Yes, this will happen right. two plus two is for I know that the variable never changes, and in work

brad_herda:

We can argue whether or not it does equal four. but that's okay,

jim_michlig:

I need an old math, not new math. So I think it does, But so so, but I think because of that it's there. they're spend themselves saying they're trying to do too many different things And then so they just can't do it all. And it's just it's kind of unfortunate then that they don't want to make a choice because they're afraid they're going to miss out on something. And then because of that, then time and punctuality just kind of becomes. It's not the bigg of a deal, Because I'm coming from here And I was doing this, So you should understand that that was really important. So, but I'm here now and it's like I hear you and that sounds really good. But you just De valued my time or my experience

brad_herda:

Right,

jim_michlig:

because of the other experience you did,

brad_herda:

I actually have a client where we have there for general laborers There, remodeling company, their level one general labor pool. Piece of it we actually have on. There's part of the requirements is show up on time three days a week. Minimum, right. it's like Hey, we understand that maybe five days a week isn't what you're going to be. You know, the expectation, obviously five. but to go from that level one to that level to employ showing up every day on time Five days a week provides them the opportunity to get the bump showing up five days a week on time, and in our company, clothing and branded apparel, Is that next thing to get that next bump right, They can do that if they want to show up in company gear two days a week and show up three days a week on time, Um, Great because it's there and they know and they can adjust and adapt and plan for it, But it is weird that we built it in because of that lack of opportunit, Because we know that it's yeah, it's cold out. You know what I'm going to stop at Starbuck, or I'm gonna. I'm just going to make breakfast before I go and not worry that I'm going a be late because people are depending on me. I'm just gonna show up when I get there. I know I'll be okay once I get there.

jim_michlig:

And I would say to that and now to just, and this is a social observation. I guess I would say is I don't feel that all humans nowadays take responsibility for their actions as to why they weren't there. It was the star bucks lying on the Starbuck employe that was slow. That's why I was late. It's not because I chose to go to Starbuck when I didn't have enough time.

brad_herda:

That's a. That's a different podcast episode. But I'm not going to disagree with you in any way, shape or form. So you started out teaching after you got through with schooling, and you were working tech at right, And we kind of talked about this before the show. You know, from two thousand eight to twenty twenty three. what kind of differences have you seen in our in either a education system as to how we're treating and preparing students for success? However they define it, whether it's four years or going to get a job. And what are the needs or different, Is that you're seeing between what the students are are looking for and asking for, so that Em

jim_michlig:

Yeah,

brad_herda:

give us a little insight so the employer out there can understand that. Hey, this is how kids are coming through because I'm a big believer of the employer needs to adapt to the new work force, Doesn't mean we have to coddle to it, but we need to adapt and adjust and make make those adjustments so that we have an effective multi generational work force, not an autocratic work for, Because I don't think the younger generations are gonna deal with the autocratic very well and tear. Gonna say F. u. and they're gonna be out the door. So what have you seen over this you know, period of time

jim_michlig:

So two thousand five when I left college to be called a tech teacher, The shift in society was the trades, job, teched, manufacturing stuff like that was. You know, Don't go into those fields and the shift in

brad_herda:

It

jim_michlig:

society

brad_herda:

was galling before then trust me,

jim_michlig:

A yeah, so like, And you're right. I was dying before then, and I think we were at full swing. At that time Ol districts were gutting programs, getting rid of their shops, changing their programming. We are a college balance service society. We don't need these jobs anymore. Um, and then it was just kind of for. for the the people in the game. Like me, it was survival. And how do you show value in a traditional shop setting? It's for those kids when we're training all kids to go to college, and maybe Some of the kids you're teaching are not going to fit that mold. So so what does that look like? And for for a while there that was just the reality is Teat as a whole, was for those kids going into the trade for those kids. Now let's fast forward to twenty twenty three. The Mskigonischool, this tract has a very, very high percentage, I want to say, were eighty percent or more that identifies with a four year degree guy. We have A lot of families out here that are business owners, successful people that have going out of college, and in two thousand eight the kids were going to college. Fast Forward to today's date. I have seen a drastic paradise shift, and from the families, the messaging now is, I want to support my children in what they are passionate about going into. I just may not know how to do that. And what I mean by that is, I'm seeing a lap. So the third high, This bubble in our career exploration, softer that we use that is picked by our high school students is in the architecture, construction, building trades,

brad_herda:

Okay,

jim_michlig:

so we are had a good amount of kids that are saying that this is a potential future career path for them. And what I've had more meetings about with parents is how do I help my students do this Because I'm an accountant. I am in the health care industry. I want to support them. This is what their passionate about. They love working with their hands. I just have no clue about starting, and then then you start talking about union, non union registrar prentiships. What is all the other variables? We

brad_herda:

Right,

jim_michlig:

start talking about General per H, C. And so there's so much out there And so I have seen in my time being an education from two thousand five for just those kids programs being gutted and cancelled. To now, this is a viable opportunity. This is a viable career path. If my child wants to do it, just let me know how I can support them And that's what I'm looking for Now is the resources to help them support. And I would say that just that statement kind of mired what happened in the Miskuigooway school district. We just passed a rougherendum to completely re do our tech ed wing,

brad_herda:

Cool,

jim_michlig:

and kind of bring in or so we went from having one class truly dedicated to the building trades, which is rough framing, While electrical to, I just worked with my team the other day because we have the new space we're looking at, bringing in a six sequencing of courses or students can experience fundamental framing, H v C, electrical and pluming, foundation and masonry, interior trim and exterior in exterior soul,

brad_herda:

That

jim_michlig:

So

brad_herda:

is

jim_michlig:

I

brad_herda:

awesome.

jim_michlig:

have seen. Yeah,

brad_herda:

I hope so. so. please don't take this the wrong way, Jim. I know you were the teacher of the teched, but please don't take

jim_michlig:

Yeah,

brad_herda:

a wrong way. I am hoping that at least your governing bodies and your curriculum will be to drive it to what industry needs not to drive it from. I'm going to teach a curriculum that is just going to be there to teach them not to provide them wisdom and guidance. I will say that in our school days When we did our stuff out here, M new new teched teachers coming in all excited. Going forward, we had our community partners in to kind of explain. This is what we want to see in the machine shop. This is what we want to seeing the wild shop. This is what we want to see there and it fell on deaf ears. Um, and the business partners in the community weren't getting the skills taught that are going to make them employable, but they were passing the grades from an education perspective. It's like Oh man, we missed an opper To any

jim_michlig:

Well, I will say, Um, back to just be unfortunate, and back to what I said about making the relationships to grind, so that that's my job and I'm excited about that is from the higher level, I can get out there and talk to our community partners to try to bring in what's relevant. Um, So with as we continue to do this, we keep talking to our industry partners about relevant certifications And how do we tie the coriculum to industry? Recognize certifications

brad_herda:

Awesome

jim_michlig:

so that so that it is preparing them for career. Is it not just academia hammer swinging? One of one, You know this is. This is how we're getting our kids ready and in the hammer things reality, Brad. we were at a dinner and were, Remember an electrical contractor getting up there and you had a young kid. Eager showed up on time. He was super excited about that, but the kid didn't know how to swing a hammer and he's like

brad_herda:

Right,

jim_michlig:

I want to hire you, but I don't have the time to teach you to do that either. so so yeah, I know a lot of work is going behind the scenes of Okay, This is what we're looking at from a high level. This. What are you asking for? What makes sense? How does this go into? the Reality is we can't service every business partner with every specific need.

brad_herda:

Correct

jim_michlig:

But what are the general entry level skills? that? then you can run with a teacher.

brad_herda:

Right. You're not going to teach them. If you're on a sand C machine, Your specific a v V controller? You might be using a seaman's control. You might. whatever whatever hosts might put on their machines. You're not going to have that specific thing, but you're going to teach them. You know, some some decent programming skills to be able to do that. So that's awesome. What piece of advice would you have for? Um? So three part question. So what piece of advice do you have for businesses out there to engage with their local schools? How to? What's an important aspect for them to come out to go? Find that talent would be the first piece of advice. I'm looking for. the second piece of advice is. what are you going? What advice would you give to Um? the parents That are wanting to help their student or young adult find their way, And the third one is for the educators. What would you tell educators to do or support them or make that change of mind set?

jim_michlig:

You said. We're not talking for an hour today.

brad_herda:

No, we're not talking for now. You got like two and a half minutes. It's all good. right.

jim_michlig:

Um, so to the business partners, the biggest thing I can tell you is be persistent, Um, One of the things which is unfortunate is not every school district has a person in a position such as mine, so my job is guided around building the network and the connections to help streamline and guide the work. So some of it it might be a little more work for some different school district to find the champion. What I mean by the champion is the people that's going to help guide the work and bridge the relationships.

brad_herda:

Okay.

jim_michlig:

So if you call and you get passed around to voice mail box, the voice mail box and it falls on debt years, don't don't ever, just never call again. You might have to look at a different avenue or a different connection and try to find the right person that's going to champion and help build those relationships into the business partners. You're at a unique time, So there's a lot of P. twenty six academic career planning. So this is part of the Wisconsin legislator to do this work. So now this is on the radar of educational systems to keep this going forward. So you just have to find that right connection. When you find the right connection, they will help you guide the work forward, and I will also say to our business partners or people like me, that, Um, that, look at this as if you're doing what's right for Wisconsin. You're doing what's right for you School district. So there's strategic things that we are doing or I'm doing with some of my partners here that. Yes, it benefits the Miskigonway School district, but it also benefits Wisconsin, so there'll be people out there just help and trying to champion the work

brad_herda:

Okay,

jim_michlig:

that may not be your direct connected.

brad_herda:

what

jim_michlig:

Either

brad_herda:

about? what about the parents? What are you gonna tell them?

jim_michlig:

Parents, everybody thinks they know what they want to do when they're in a key, twelve educational setting. And or maybe they're still trying to figure it out, But if your son or daughter right now gets very fixed and lacked on a career profession and never looks at anything else, they may end up. Your students may end up making a very expensive mistake. And what I mean by that is, I will see students Early as seventh grade. Tell me that they are going into the health care profession and they are going to be a nurse. They will center all of their education, all their schooling, all their career speakers, everything on that an area, and then when they actually get done with the training and get to the job site, they may find that they actually really don't like it, So make sure that you encourage your students to use their Kate twelve educational time to explore. Figure out What it is that you really do like, and if you do after exploring, find No, this is it. I got some work base learning. I network with a mentor, whatever that is, and now you can get the extra credentials and certifications well in school. That that's amazing. But

brad_herda:

Love

jim_michlig:

don't

brad_herda:

that?

jim_michlig:

put all your and one basket too early, Because I've seen that and it's just not.

brad_herda:

Yep,

jim_michlig:

I don't want to talk to this speaker. They bring no value to me and I'm like they. might. You just got to talk to them.

brad_herda:

Right, love that. And what about for the educational systems around the around the the globe Here? What would you tell them to focus on or look at or piece of advice to help support this blue collar world?

jim_michlig:

Yeah, so I mean, there's so many different things to give to them, but I'm going to say it's twenty twenty three and we started the show off. Make helping business partners understand how to work with the next generation coming up and better prepare them. Educators need to understand too that the world has changed and even though two plus two still equals flow for, in some scenarios, that is how we offer education. How we do things, it can look Differently and we can be pro active and innovated, and we can make connections and relationships to make things more powerful. But if we get in a fixed mind set that this is how we've always done it, and this is what it

brad_herda:

The

jim_michlig:

should

brad_herda:

worst

jim_michlig:

look

brad_herda:

words

jim_michlig:

like,

brad_herda:

in society.

jim_michlig:

and it is the worst words, And I would say in an educational institution too often or not, those are words used of them, because for the most part we have some very fixed variables of knowledge Like this has been established Over time, and this is what we know. But like education is changing and society is changing, And how do we adapt with the changes to work together to better prepare our students to be career ready.

brad_herda:

So I love all those three pieces of vice and an opportunity. Stick here, if a school district, if a business partner, If an educator parents, somebody wants to reach out to learn more about. Maybe starting this in their community might be a smaller community, or somewhere else around the state around the country. How does somebody get a hold of of Jim, the master of of this program? Um to be able to maybe Bark something in their own communities?

jim_michlig:

There's there's two different ways about about going about that, So I always enjoy having the conversation and and kind of see in where we go And how do we spark interest or give ideas. So email is usually always the best way and Brad, I'll provide you some that contact, Follow up, but then also to the point of we start talking, we want to get granular and we want help to start building programming for your areas. I do have a How, I do have consulting business with a partner In

brad_herda:

Okay,

jim_michlig:

Um, laymen from the Gan Go school district that if you wanted to start pursuing things to start helping you build programming specific to your needs to kind of hit the ground running faster than. Maybe, if you did it yourself, that would be another way of going about it, and I'll provide both emails, my

brad_herda:

All right,

jim_michlig:

school email. We can have a light conversation about ideas to maybe help you move in the right direction, but you want to get granular. I'll give you a consulting companies email as well, and

brad_herda:

Okay,

jim_michlig:

and we can And work with you that way as well,

brad_herda:

Spectacular, thank you so much for coming on today to share your knowledge and wisdom and take the win for not behaving as a millennial, even though you are in that category by birth. You know not much we can do about that. If two plus two is in equal four, then damn it, you're going to be millennial As that song,

jim_michlig:

Brad. thank you for having me out. I do appreciate and I enjoy the conversation today.

brad_herda:

All right, Thank you so much, sir. we'll see you at our next board meeting, right?

jim_michlig:

All it's all.