Episode 212
Transparency Without Clarity Is Just Opaqueness
A lot of younger workers are going through major organizational change for the first time. When leadership announces big shifts without spelling out what success looks like, they're left trying to figure it out on their own. They came in with their trust bucket full. But when the clarity doesn't show up, that bucket empties fast.
The real problem isn't the change itself. It's announcing change without defining what success looks like. If people don't know what they're working toward, why would they get on board? They're just going to come in, do the minimum, and move on.
Define what's changing. Be clear about what winning means. Set a date to revisit it. And then actually show up. Because people believe what you do, not what you say.
Highlights:
- Younger workers experiencing organizational change for the first time have nothing to compare it to confusion and unclear expectations empty their trust bucket fast.
- Transparency without clarity just creates opaqueness.
- When leaders aren't around during change, people stop working as a team and start protecting themselves.
- Your actions tell the real story not your words.
Make sure to subscribe to Blue Collar BS so you don't miss what's happening in the trades. Share this episode with someone who would benefit from knowing what works with a multi generational work force.
Get in touch with us:
Check out the Blue Collar BS website.
Steve Doyle:
Brad Herda:
This podcast uses the following third-party services for analysis:
Podtrac - https://analytics.podtrac.com/privacy-policy-gdrp
OP3 - https://op3.dev/privacy
Transcript
Welcome back to this episode of the Blue Collar BS podcast. I am your co host Brad along with the award winning co host wearing his boy band haircut today.
Stephen Doyle Jr (:Steve.
Stephen Doyle Jr (:I don't know many boy bands that have a haircut like this.
Brad Herda (:Well, it looks like a boy band cut to me, so it's OK. I'm old. Remember that I am old. I am old. So as we just got done recording with another guest here a little bit ago, we're talking about what we got to get done. We got to some stuff taken care of. And lo and behold, you say, I have an idea. So you have an idea, which is not normal for the show, which everybody knows, right? Don't lie. Our audience knows.
Stephen Doyle Jr (:Okay, you are old. You are old.
Stephen Doyle Jr (:Mm-hmm.
Stephen Doyle Jr (:Mm. Yeah. wow. OK, we're going to go there. You're going to go there. All right.
Brad Herda (:Our audience knows how this show works. And so when you say you have an idea, I'm hitting record. So we hit record. So let's go. What are we talking about?
Stephen Doyle Jr (:You hit record.
All right. All right. Let's let's go down the trust path from a leadership perspective. Okay, because you and I, we have a lot of conversations with people, whether they're clients, whether I yeah, yeah, I do talk to people. You talk to people. I know, right?
Brad Herda (:Yes, we do talk to people. That is true.
I talk to dogs, I talk to my dog too, dog doesn't care.
Stephen Doyle Jr (:Yeah, the dog don't care. Dog don't care as long as you feed it, it trusts you. Pretty much. Well, lo and behold, a lot of things that we see is about how when we're at work and how hard we work or not hard we work often comes down to how much do we trust each other and trust leadership.
Brad Herda (:correct.
Stephen Doyle Jr (:time. So riddle me this Batman. Help me connect the dots. So let's say for some reason
Brad Herda (:Okay.
Stephen Doyle Jr (:You know, we're coming up on six months into the year. And leadership.
Brad Herda (:As a matter of fact, this will be airing July 3rd. So happy 250th birthday, USA.
Stephen Doyle Jr (:Correct.
Happy 250. So, regardless of, you know, what month this is airing, your leadership team, let's hypothetically say Batman, that your leadership team looks at their numbers and says, you know what, we need to do something different. So, all your goals, gone. How you do your work, changing. And
Brad Herda (:Okay.
Stephen Doyle Jr (:At some point, people are either going to say, yes, I'm in, or you know what? I've had enough and I'm going to move on.
Brad Herda (:Yes, that is a true statement. How often have we gone from the Batmobile to the Flintstone mobile and back to the Mach 5? Are we doing this every quarter, every month, every six months, every three years?
Stephen Doyle Jr (:Right?
Stephen Doyle Jr (:Mm-hmm.
Stephen Doyle Jr (:No, let's just say, let's just hypothetically say, let's just say it just happened this year, right? Right?
Brad Herda (:Okay, so this is not a common occurrence. This is just something that occurred because of conditions. All right, I want to make sure it's not habitual.
Stephen Doyle Jr (:This is just something that occurred, right? no, I, we're just hypothetically saying it hasn't occurred before. The thing that might be occurring is you have a lot of newer people to your organization and you know, about six months in, you kind of get a feel for what's working, what's not working. And we need to do something different because things aren't working.
things aren't going the way they could be going. So let's literally throw a grenade in and see what happens. So now, and so we're gonna announce as a leadership team, we're gonna announce that, hey, we're gonna make some changes.
Brad Herda (:That's an option.
Stephen Doyle Jr (:We don't exactly know the ramifications of these changes yet, but we're going to make changes.
Brad Herda (:Great, so let the storytelling begin.
Stephen Doyle Jr (:Correct. Hey, well, hey, hold on. We're not there yet. We're not there yet. Because we're to have a team meeting and we're in this team meeting. We're announcing that there's changes coming.
Brad Herda (:All right.
Brad Herda (:We're going to have a team meeting and announce that there are changes coming, but we don't know what they are so that everybody in the team can go back and tell their own stories. Did I jump the gun?
Stephen Doyle Jr (:Hey, whoa, whoa. You're reading the tea leaves. You're reading the tea leaves. Yeah. Oh, yeah. All right. We're gonna make some changes. How we've done things is gonna be completely different. And overall, we're gonna do things in this manner. So I'm gonna give you high level. This is how we're now gonna operate. Okay. And some of you are gonna change roles. Some of you are gonna do some things, have to do some things differently.
But we don't exactly know everything yet, but we're just telling you starting, let's say starting July 1st, we're going to do everything differently.
Okay, and so that's the meeting, right?
Brad Herda (:I'm only laughing because I've been through a couple of these in my lifetime.
Stephen Doyle Jr (:Like who hasn't but you know, so let's let's riddle me
Brad Herda (:Who hasn't? Most Gen Zs have not been through that yet.
Stephen Doyle Jr (:No, they haven't. Right. So so when you are a younger Gen Z, even millennial, some millennials have never been through this type of change, but they've been through some. But so Batman, tell me, what do you think starts to happen?
Brad Herda (:Well, let's see. First of all, you get the meetings after the meetings of the clicks of people going, what the fuck's going on? What's happening? So you get that going on. You get the old timers going, yeah, these these leaders, they don't know what they're talking about. I'm just going to go do what I'm going to do like I always do. And if they don't like it, they can fire me. And then you're going to have the younger folks that are there that have an experience to go, this makes no sense to me. There's not clear communication. I'm out.
Stephen Doyle Jr (:Mm-hmm.
Stephen Doyle Jr (:Mm-hmm.
them.
Brad Herda (:I'm leaving. I'm going to I'm going to bounce as quickly as I can.
And in the meantime, everybody's telling themselves stories and or they are there's a parade. There's a there's a parade route going in and out of the offices of the leadership group, asking questions left and right about what's going on, what's going on with ideas out of the yin yang, where everybody's like, yeah, I was listening by Johnny and Johnny said we're going to do this. And now
Stephen Doyle Jr (:Hmm. Well, let's.
Brad Herda (:Well, I was in by Johnny and I was in by Johnny and Johnny told me this and that's not the same story. And now we're going to have conflict and other things because, you know, leader Johnny is doing just pacifying people because he has no idea what he's talking about.
Stephen Doyle Jr (:Mmm.
Stephen Doyle Jr (:Yep. Now let's add a new caveat. Well, I mean, hypothetically, you're kind of close, but let's say that leadership is off handling all the big problems that are keeping the company moving forward. So they're not available for conversation.
Brad Herda (:So Mike, we close on any of this at all or not?
Stephen Doyle Jr (:So we don't have a parade of people going in and out of offices. There's a void. There's a void. other thing that, right? The other thing, Batman, that we need to kind of look at hypothetically is let's say because a lot of the people are newer to the organization, they have moved from
Brad Herda (:Okay, even worse. Maybe not worse, but different.
Stephen Doyle Jr (:Other organizations where turnover was very high, change happened frequently. And when leaders said something and didn't follow through, that's why they left.
Stephen Doyle Jr (:So Batman, hypothetically, that's right. So how can anyone take reigns from a trust perspective in this scenario?
Brad Herda (:Same grass, different yard.
Brad Herda (:Ooh, there are so so is this a service based or manufacturing based organization? Hypothetically, hypothetically, service based or manufacturing?
Stephen Doyle Jr (:Hypothetically? Hypothetically? It's more service-based, hypothetically, but I've seen it play out in manufacturing.
Brad Herda (:Well, but the reason I asked the question, because I think if there were two sides of the wall, right? If there was the floor side and the office side, there's some different things at play here, but there's only an office side and not a manufacturing or warehouse component or something like that. I think it's different.
Stephen Doyle Jr (:not ssss
Brad Herda (:Right, because both sides of that wall, both sides of that door are going to handle that differently potentially. Whereas the office side, someone in the office, someone either tenured, someone likely tenured, that's going to be of a somewhat looked up.
Well, two things would either happen. One, the person that's most tenured is also going to try to take the lead to figure it all out and keep everybody at bay, keep everybody down from a title perspective. Or there'll be somebody on the floor inside the organization that has massive personal power with no title that will do all the things to figure it out and try to keep everybody calm and just continue to do the work so we can move forward and keep things happening to.
Stephen Doyle Jr (:Mm-hmm.
Stephen Doyle Jr (:Mm-hmm.
Brad Herda (:potentially leverage the opportunity for a conversation to not make the changes happen.
Stephen Doyle Jr (:Okay, that's interesting theories. Those are all those are all high. I just said they were interesting theories. I'd liken this to you know, people are just like a loaf of bread. Some people are the crust. Some people are the gooey middle. Right? They all soak up the crap that's going on.
Brad Herda (:You just called me stupid. Thank you very much. appreciate that. I know what I heard.
Stephen Doyle Jr (:So regardless of if it's a professional services or manufacturing, it's all the same. I, I.
Brad Herda (:But how it happens without leadership around it, it will happen differently. Because typically on the floor, because typically on it, if I have those two sides of the wall, right, I've got the office and I've got the shop, there's typically a clear delineation of a second level leadership group of some way, shape or form or second level of leader that is out there that could be the go to to absorb.
Stephen Doyle Jr (:How so?
Stephen Doyle Jr (:Mm-hmm.
Stephen Doyle Jr (:Hmm.
Brad Herda (:some of that chaos and noise and be that receiver of concern or conversation, whereas an office may not have that, is why I was asking that question.
Stephen Doyle Jr (:Okay.
Stephen Doyle Jr (:Okay, okay. All right. So you went down a path of personal power, which is very intriguing. So help our listeners understand that much deeper and how can they help from a
trust perspective when leadership hasn't.
provided really anything other than hate, change is happening.
Brad Herda (:So you have, if we're taking this down a generational path here, right? So the older generation is going to, now, if these leaders have been around a long time, those leaders have earned the trust of the older generations working there to move forward. So they've earned that trust to say, okay, this is what's going to happen. Whether they like it or not is another story, but maybe they're on board. The younger generation start with their trust bucket full.
Stephen Doyle Jr (:Mm-hmm.
Stephen Doyle Jr (:Yep. Yep.
Brad Herda (:And they came to work here because of the trust bucket being full. And now that truck is going to be emptied out very quickly, which is going to create a big divide inside the organization or in their turnover situation, most likely.
Stephen Doyle Jr (:Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Stephen Doyle Jr (:Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Okay. And so knowing leaders, you know, they think they're being transparent. How can leaders...
Or what what advice would you have for leaders that think they're being transparent by telling people, this is coming, this is coming. The date now came.
And guess what didn't come? A set of expectations on the change. Yeah, changes have been made.
Brad Herda (:Did they make changes? Did they? They made the change. OK, I thought I thought maybe the date came and they didn't make the changes, which would which would make it even worse.
Stephen Doyle Jr (:No, no, came changes. They came changes are made.
And so now people are like, okay, the changes are made. However, what was also said, in addition to making the changes, how the measurement for success changed.
Brad Herda (:total chaos.
Stephen Doyle Jr (:But...
Brad Herda (:Was it outlined and defined what the measurement is?
Stephen Doyle Jr (:No, and hypothetically, let's say it's not defined.
Brad Herda (:That's a problem. Because if you don't know what winning looks like every day, you have no idea. Nobody has any idea. They're just coming in and gonna punch a clock. And if you all of a sudden want to make this change in this initiatives, no one's gonna put their back into it. Because why? And then it's not gonna matter what generation it's part of, or what the work is, why would I do that? I'm gonna come in, collect my check, do the right, you could end up with the whole
Stephen Doyle Jr (:But how so?
Stephen Doyle Jr (:Mm-hmm. And then at the end of the day...
Brad Herda (:quiet quitting thing. can end up with the whole minimum effort. You're going to end up with most likely very, uh, you're going to end up with most likely a lot of anger and frustration amongst team members. their belief systems aren't on alignment or, uh, you know, everything just got completely turned upside down. So what was isn't and what is, is unknown. And so
Stephen Doyle Jr (:Mm-hmm.
Stephen Doyle Jr (:Mm-hmm.
Stephen Doyle Jr (:Mm-hmm.
Brad Herda (:You've got to make the unknown known and make the expectations clear.
Stephen Doyle Jr (:Mm-hmm. Correct. So with with and again, leadership is not available to clarify.
Brad Herda (:How can they make the changes and not have leadership be available to clarify? Are they all on fucking vacation? Did they all go to the Bahamas? I mean, do they win the lottery? What's going on here?
Stephen Doyle Jr (:Okay.
Stephen Doyle Jr (:Hypothetically, they're all working on their largest clients and servicing them.
Stephen Doyle Jr (:This is a fun hypothetical situation for you.
Brad Herda (:man.
Brad Herda (:Every leader is out servicing the larger clients.
Stephen Doyle Jr (:Yeah, the the the main leaders hypothetically, the main leaders are all out. So if you're if you're your boss, their boss and the owner.
Brad Herda (:Yeah, well...
Brad Herda (:How can I say this really politely? They're fucked.
Stephen Doyle Jr (:But how so? How so? Because, Batman...
Brad Herda (:How so? Because, because no one's around to take care of the change. No one's around to create the opportunity for communication and clarity. No one's around to be able to see the noise and chaos. And when the leader comes back after servicing, the primary client's going to go, how come all this stuff isn't done correctly? Cause nobody knew what was fucking done correctly. And we're going to say, well, screw you, Batman. you're out gallivanting around enjoying life and golfing and supporting your doing all these things, taking care of the client.
Stephen Doyle Jr (:Mm-hmm.
Stephen Doyle Jr (:Mm-hmm.
Brad Herda (:And we're back here, you know, the finger of our ass trying to figure out what we're supposed to be doing and hoping it's right. And no one cares. And there's no direction because you guys are out gallivanting around the world to do what you think is right for that. You know, hopefully at least it's the 80 to one, hopefully at least it's the 80 20 principle of the, of the clients and the revenue and the profitability, but most likely it's not. It's mostly Mike. My hunch is it's probably ego driven versus data driven.
Stephen Doyle Jr (:Mm-hmm.
Stephen Doyle Jr (:But what I'm-
Stephen Doyle Jr (:Mm-hmm.
Stephen Doyle Jr (:Could be. I don't know. It's hypothetical. where... Yeah, I got that. But what I'm looking at is where has the personal power gone in this situation?
Brad Herda (:Well, hypothetically, that's my prediction.
Brad Herda (:For who?
Stephen Doyle Jr (:For the employees that are kind of like, okay, I don't know kind of how I'm measuring success, how they're measuring success, they haven't been defined. why am I, what is preventing me from creating that this is what success is gonna look like and going and executing on that?
Brad Herda (:Was that the culture beforehand?
Stephen Doyle Jr (:Neither yes nor no. But what was clear before was defined measure of success.
Brad Herda (:Correct. So there's a defined measure of success. if there is a total in, if there isn't a defined measure of success, you may have, you may have an individual or two who are like, fuck it. Instead of being told what I'm going to do, I'm going to go pave my own way. There is that possibility that that can happen. I can say that
Stephen Doyle Jr (:Mm-hmm.
Stephen Doyle Jr (:Mm-hmm. Correct. Mm-hmm.
Brad Herda (:That was one of the things that I felt very successful with doing what I was doing in my subcontract world because it's like nobody cared about what I was doing. I mean, they cared, but nobody wanted to get into the details as long as we were delivering the results. The key was I knew what the results were, right? And some of those results I had the fact I fabricated those results say this is why this is important. And here's how it aligns to what we're trying to accomplish from getting either parts out the door, parts in the door, machines out the door, whatever, whatever that might look like.
Stephen Doyle Jr (:Correct.
Mm-hmm.
Stephen Doyle Jr (:Mm-hmm.
Brad Herda (:So if somebody has that high enough CD behavioral style to be able to see the context and do that, they could potentially put themselves in a niche to, to take a leadership run in an area and have the troops rally around them. it's possible, but if they didn't have that social cloud previously, it's not just going to come up magically overnight because people are looking for, for something to happen.
Stephen Doyle Jr (:Mm-hmm.
Stephen Doyle Jr (:Mm-hmm.
Brad Herda (:because they're all in their own clicks, they're all in their own department areas or whatever it is, most likely, hypothetically speaking, and taking care of themselves because they're going to go take care of themselves because no one else is.
Stephen Doyle Jr (:Right?
Mm-hmm.
Brad Herda (:Because there's nobody that there's no beacon to turn to to understand what what is really going on, right? Great, we were doing everything different. We went from blue paper to it wasn't right. We went from blue paper to Etch A sketches. Great, fantastic. Nobody knows how to use an extra sketch. So how do we make this work? Well, is the extra sketch going to stick around for the next two years or is this a one week thing and they're going to say, we're going to go back the way it was because this isn't working either.
Stephen Doyle Jr (:Mm-hmm.
Stephen Doyle Jr (:Fantastic.
Stephen Doyle Jr (:Mm-hmm.
Brad Herda (:How, with the leaders being gone, taking care of the primary customers, the success opportunity is, I'm going to call very slim to be able to create the change and get the impact that we're looking for.
Stephen Doyle Jr (:Hmm
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Brad Herda (:Because it's not important to them. Because they're not there.
Stephen Doyle Jr (:Ooooo
Interesting.
So what they're sending a message hypothetically when your leadership
Brad Herda (:This is like parents telling their kids don't go out and don't go drink, but yet mom and dad are sitting there drinking. Yeah, well, we're from Wisconsin, so that's not a bad example. Kids don't go out and drink, but then I'm drinking a 12-pack every night.
Stephen Doyle Jr (:Hahaha!
Stephen Doyle Jr (:Right. Don't do the thing that I'm doing right now. Do as I say, not as I do. Right.
Brad Herda (:Correct.
Stephen Doyle Jr (:So from a trust standpoint, where can companies and leaders take the ball and run in a scenario like this? Like where would you have said it started with first? Started at the breakdown first.
Brad Herda (:Well, it started with the, it started with the premature release of, of information.
Stephen Doyle Jr (:Hmm, but I'm trying to be transparent and that's what people want. They want transparency.
Brad Herda (:Transparency without clarity is just opaqueness.
Stephen Doyle Jr (:You
Brad Herda (:Let that sink in.
Stephen Doyle Jr (:It is. Yeah, it is. It is. It absolutely is.
So what would your advice be to employees that are facing this scenario with their leadership team?
Brad Herda (:the most likely what's going to happen is you're going to come back with the pitchforks and tiki torches and all the things and all the anger that's going to come out of it, right? So the leadership side of it needs to recognize that they failed as leaders because they weren't there through a massive change.
Stephen Doyle Jr (:Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Brad Herda (:So the employees are going to be most likely upset, hypothetically, unengaged, disenfranchised with what anything they're going to tell you moving forward. Because if it's incongruent, like it was this time, why would I believe it's going to happen again? Why would I think it's going to be different if your actions and your words are not in alignment with each other? Right? This is the thing we just got done. Right? What? I don't care what you tell me. Just make sure your actions align with I'm going to Matt.
Stephen Doyle Jr (:Mm-hmm.
Stephen Doyle Jr (:Right. Right.
Brad Herda (:This is where a lot of things get really wrong. We pay attention to what people say, not what they do. The leaders said something and then what they did is they left.
Stephen Doyle Jr (:Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Brad Herda (:So they abandoned the team through an entire massive change of structure and infrastructure and results based requirements and all the things. they got, they abandoned their family essentially. And now they're going to come back in after all they're done, whatever. Hey, how's it going? And, they're going to eat their asses handed to them for not doing what was expected. Cause no one was clear on what was expected. I just had this guy.
Stephen Doyle Jr (:Mm-hmm.
Brad Herda (:There's a stupid analogy they came up with the other day with with one of my clients is like, hey, their transportation company and like, you got to go take this. Take this delivery from from Milwaukee to to Madison. And they get to Madison and they get yelled at for well, how come he didn't stop in Oak Creek and pick that other thing up?
Stephen Doyle Jr (:Mm-hmm.
Brad Herda (:No one told me I was supposed to go from Milwaukee to O'Creek to Madison because it wasn't on my dispatch list. It wasn't communicated, but I knew that I was right. But how come you didn't? I knew you needed to go there, but you didn't. Nobody communicated what was supposed to happen or what the requirements were. So now the employees pissed because he's getting yelled at because the guy didn't tell him what was required. And now we've got conflict. We have conflict versus trust. And you as a trust agent.
Stephen Doyle Jr (:Thank you.
Stephen Doyle Jr (:Mm-hmm. Yep.
Brad Herda (:trusted edge leader person should probably be able to come up with the hypothetical here solution for this whole scenario. So Mr. Stephen Doyle, give us the answer.
Stephen Doyle Jr (:Give you the answer. Well, honestly, it really starts with just laying down what are those foundational expectations? Just like we talked about, right? These are the these are the expectations. There's going to be uncertainty. This is where we are going to be certain. And when you have questions. If you have questions right now, let's answer those questions, ask an answer.
Let's get clarity because what's unclear is not trusted.
Brad Herda (:Well, and if you can't answer the question, be honest that I can't answer the question and move forward.
Stephen Doyle Jr (:Yeah, and it's not, I can't, you know, that it's not like, oh, that's above your pay grade type answer. It's, I don't know yet. These are the things that need to happen for us to know. And be transparent with these are the steps to gain the clarity.
Stephen Doyle Jr (:plain and simple.
But the more we can be clear to help clear up that ambiguity, the uncertainty, the more people start seeing and trusting us as leaders.
And the more consistent we are with our clarity and communicating that the better off it is. It's not, you know, have a meeting, throw it out there. Hey, I'm going to be, you know, and it's also setting the expectation as well from this is when we are going to revisit this.
from a follow-up perspective and do what you say you're gonna do.
Brad Herda (:put it on the calendar, do something. There's nothing more frustrating than having a leader and having one-on-ones and they always reschedule them.
Stephen Doyle Jr (:Mm-hmm.
Stephen Doyle Jr (:100 %
Brad Herda (:guess what? That means that our one-on-one time is not important because you're always rescheduling them. So why would I care?
Stephen Doyle Jr (:Yeah, yeah. All right. Well, how about this? I'll let you just reschedule it. I'm just going to go off and do my own thing.
Brad Herda (:Yeah, I'm just not gonna have them. And if it's something you need to know, then you just come and tell me. So what is now that your deck is all done, graduation is over? Are you you got a big Fourth of July party planned here tomorrow?
Stephen Doyle Jr (:Mm-hmm. Yep. So.
Stephen Doyle Jr (:No, no, no, we don't do 4th of July parties. We we let all the people. It's huge travel in Michigan travel weekend. We do not travel. Like no, let let everybody else go do that thing is that's I do not want to sit hours in traffic, not my jam, not my traffic jam.
Brad Herda (:Okay, fair enough.
Stephen Doyle Jr (:So you, my friend, you got a bash going on?
Brad Herda (:I do not. Well, this is bizarre. It's my brother-in-law's party. It's just hosted at our house, right? So I expect to have, you know, 40 to 70 people somewhere throughout the day at our house and doing all the things and whatever it's going to be. And then the Sunday I have a party with a bunch of
Stephen Doyle Jr (:at your house, that's right.
Stephen Doyle Jr (:That's fantastic.
Brad Herda (:small business owners, networking partners, different things. So probably doing some brisket. We'll probably do some smoked mac and cheese again. Maybe do some, uh, some pulled pork. Don't know what I'm going to do from a meat perspective. Just depends on what I find.
Stephen Doyle Jr (:OOOO
Stephen Doyle Jr (:Give you some pork belly cinnamon rolls.
Brad Herda (:Say what?
Stephen Doyle Jr (:Yeah, buddy. Yeah, buddy. Support belly cinnamon rolls.
Cut your, get you a slab of pork belly. Cut it into one inch strips, one inch thick, one inch wide strips. Put some cinnamon sugar, roll them up, smoke them. Take them off, take them out of the bowl. You smoke them rolled up. Nope.
Brad Herda (:Yeah, yeah, I got that.
Brad Herda (:you're smoking them while they're, you're smoking them rolled up. Okay. I was thinking you're going to smoke them. You're going to smoke it then get some, get a little bark on it and then roll it up in the cinnamon.
Stephen Doyle Jr (:No, no, no, no, no, up to put your, put some skewers in them, smoke them rolled up. Then, you know, once you got them to about the right temperature, it's maybe like two hours. Get yourself a cast iron skillet, throw some butter in it, some brown sugar in it. Get that going. Dip them in there, flip them over. Yeah, buddy.
Brad Herda (:I was going I was thinking this is all different type of thing. I was thinking, hey, we're we're going to put the cinnamon sugar on the pork belly as part of that and let it smoke with that part of that process. That's what I
Stephen Doyle Jr (:yeah.
Stephen Doyle Jr (:So when you roll it up, do smoke some of the cinnamon sugar. You do a brown sugar cinnamon in it. Nope. And then sprinkle a little Celtic salt on it on the end. yeah.
Brad Herda (:I thought you were gonna just leave it all open and not roll it up until after it was done.
Brad Herda (:You're going to have put that recipe out on our show notes there, Mr. Doyle.
Stephen Doyle Jr (:yeah. yeah. That's some, some good eating right there.
Brad Herda (:All right, well, happy birthday, USA 250. We are just infants in the world of this planet, that is for sure. while you enjoy creating trust with your family over this holiday weekend.
Stephen Doyle Jr (:Yeah, we are.
Stephen Doyle Jr (:Yeah, I will. And you do the same.
Brad Herda (:And I will do the same. thank you for thank you for the topic. Thank you for coming to the coming to the table and providing value to the blue collar BS podcast, the award winning blue collar BS podcast.
Stephen Doyle Jr (:No.
