Episode 114
What to do with your disengaged workforce?
How can businesses boost employee engagement and combat the staggering $8.9 trillion lost annually to disengaged workers?
In this episode, we dissect a Fox Business article on how companies are beefing up "emotional salary" to address today's disengaged workforce. We discuss the difference between unengaged and actively disengaged employees, and brainstorm solutions.
We emphasize the importance of leadership actively engaging with employees through regular in-person conversations and interactions. We discuss implementing incremental advancement opportunities and clear expectations to provide a sense of purpose and community at work. The challenge is to try and benchmark financials and consider what small changes could have a big impact on engagement and profitability.
Highlights:
- Leadership Must Engage: Effective leaders need to regularly interact with employees in-person to build relationships and a sense of community. An example shared would be having management walk around to prevent leaders from only showing up when there are problems.
- Clear Expectations and Advancement: Implementing incremental advancement opportunities tied to small pay bumps provides clear expectations for employees to develop skills and see a growth path. This drives engagement.
- Purpose Matters Most: While perks and benefits are nice, providing a clear mission, vision and values that leadership exemplifies is most important for employee engagement. People need to feel part of something bigger.
- Benchmark Your Engagement Cost: We challenge you to compare your Q2 financials to industry benchmarks. With disengagement costing $8.9 trillion annually, even small companies are likely losing hundreds of thousands a year.
- Small Changes Drive Profits: Courageous companies willing to make small, incremental changes to boost engagement will see a profound impact on culture, innovation and bottom-line profitability. The co-hosts urge businesses to take action.
Connect with us:
Steve Doyle:
Brad Herda:
This podcast uses the following third-party services for analysis:
OP3 - https://op3.dev/privacy
Transcript
To Blue Collar B's, a podcast that busts the popular myth that we can't find good people highlighting how the different generations of today, the boomers, Gen X, millennials and Gen Z are redefining work so that the industrial revolution that started in the US stays in the US.
Brad Herda [:Hey, welcome back to this episode of Blue Collar B's with your co host Bradley and Steve. And Steve, welcome back, mister Doyle. After a little bit of time away from one another, we get to be back at this opportunity where we're apparently the Clarkston technology bugs live and breathe and have multiplied in your studio area.
Steven Doyle [:So absolutely nothing amazes me anymore with this.
Brad Herda [:Happy to have you back. Hey, oh, by the way, what's that little glass thing in the upper up, my upper right hand corner behind you there above the glove? What is that?
Steven Doyle [:Yeah, yeah.
Brad Herda [:What is that?
Steven Doyle [:That is that, by the way, that's an award that I receive. That is that the asshole? Pretty much. Pretty much. Number one guy. Number.
Brad Herda [:No, seriously, what is the award?
Steven Doyle [:Seriously. That is the award for the international coaching practice of the year with our franchise that we're in. So yeah, we recently collected that at our annual college. Collected it. I did. I did pick it up and I.
Brad Herda [:Brought it home and I shipped it there and I shipped it back.
Steven Doyle [:Nope, that part I did not.
Brad Herda [:Well, congratulations for that recognition. Well earned, well deserved. And the reason I bring up that award, because as you guys know on the show, Steve shows up and that's all he does typically. And again, for this show, he actually did some pre work. He actually brought forward today's topic that we're going to talk about. So why don't you introduce the topic, Mister Doyle. International Franchise of the Year award winner.
Steven Doyle [:International franchise of the year. Yeah. So this was from the Fox business and it's talking about how companies are beefing up emotional salary to address today's disengaged worker. It was published on July 9 and it starts talking about how employees are becoming disengaged in what companies are doing to combat or address some of the I'm going to go out on a limb and say some of the superficial reasons that they're doing to engage them, if you will.
Brad Herda [:Yeah, it's real. I have a client right now that has some disengaged workers along the way and I don't know why or what's happening, but we are working on the either figure out how to they need to come along for the ride or they need to go find another bus. And that's going to be decision they get to make at some point along the way because we got to run the business at some point as well.
Steven Doyle [:Yeah. You can't have, you know, employees that are. Well, let's talk about that. Disengaged or not engaged? Because as we kind of talk about a little bit, that there actually is a difference between those that are not engaged versus those that are actively disengaged. So in your eyes, Brad, what's the difference?
Brad Herda [:Disengaged is. It's not a conscious decision. It could just be they don't know. Okay. It could be that they are a. And I'm going to pick on Gen Z and maybe a corporate environment or maybe even a small blue collar business that has an office area where, you know, we hired Aaron at 28 years old. 27 years old. Came in post, Covid, got that job, was there, and now there's expectations of.
Brad Herda [:It's busy. We don't know what's going on. Business owner's not around. There's no communication. There's no nothing. So it's like, well, I don't know what I'm supposed to do. So I'm just going to go shopping on Amazon. Prime day is next week.
Brad Herda [:So let's figure out what we can do. I'll do what I'm told, but I don't necessarily know what I should be doing above and beyond that. Whereas the actively disengaged employee is, I am actively coming in doing the bare freaking minimum. And you want me to be part of what? Nope, I'm not going to do that or. Or might sabotage it or only do very, very, very minimal work, if any, work at all.
Steven Doyle [:To me, that.
Brad Herda [:That's the difference.
Steven Doyle [:Hmm. All right, great. Got it. Great. Because. Because even, you know, for our listeners and maybe even for me, right, it's. Is there really a difference between those that are not engaged and disengaged? So.
Brad Herda [:Well, no, you're missing words fucking matter. They do. The word is actively disengaged. Actively not engaged is different than actively disengaged.
Steven Doyle [:Correct. So, yes, because words matter. And some people just don't feel like reading certain words, my co host included. So, ironically. So let's getting back to the article is the article highlights that over 75% of the global workforce is either not engaged or they are actively disengaged at work, according to a report that was commissioned by Gallup. I just find that just mind blowing. Because of what?
Brad Herda [:Why? Why do you find that mind blowing? Think about the. Think about the population of the workforce today by generations.
Steven Doyle [:So three out of every four people are just either not engaged or I are actively disengaged. Right. So, you know, if I looked at that and I said, okay, if I look at every. Let's just say one out of every four people. So we've got one Gen X, one Gen Z, one millennial, and one boomer. One of those people is the only one that's engaged in the workforce, and the rest of the three are either not engaged or disengaged.
Brad Herda [:And which one of those three do.
Steven Doyle [:You think it is that is actively engaged?
Brad Herda [:Well, one of the four. Sorry, bad math on my side.
Steven Doyle [:It's okay, to be honest. I'm going to default to the greatest generation, which is Gen X would be the one that is actively.
Brad Herda [:So you're going. So you're going to be against your generation, is what you're telling me?
Steven Doyle [:Yeah, I'd be against Gen X. Okay. So.
Brad Herda [:No, no, no, no, no, no, no. My age. We've already identified this numerous times.
Steven Doyle [:Yeah, yeah, by age. I'm a. I'm a Gen X. I get you. I get you. But, yeah, no, I would. Yeah, I would totally see how between Gen Z, millennials and boomers being not engaged or actively disengaged.
Brad Herda [:So I think it is a. I think it's. It depends.
Steven Doyle [:Well, I agree with that, but, you know, let's create controversy. Well, that's.
Brad Herda [:Okay. And you did. And, you know, your people are going to be all upset with you now.
Steven Doyle [:All my tens of people.
Brad Herda [:Yep. All your tens of listeners. The. I'll just use panera. Right. It's an elderly workforce today all of a sudden, because nobody else wants to fill those roles. Are all those boomers engaged? No.
Steven Doyle [:No, they're not.
Brad Herda [:Are all the kids in the kitchen actively engaged and coming in? No, they're not. So, I mean, I don't necessarily know. It's a generational piece, but I think you could stereotypically say that there are. We have the boomers that are at the end, and they just want to get to the end.
Steven Doyle [:Yep.
Brad Herda [:So I'm not really gonna be engaged in all your hoopla and all your culture shift and your ping pong tables and your flip, flip cup areas and your nap pods and whatever else you might have going on.
Steven Doyle [:Right.
Brad Herda [:Gen X is trying to get to the next ten years just to get through the shit show that exists along the way from any of them. You get the millennials, who have been accelerated through their career for the most part, from the time they entered the workforce till the time they are to where they are now in their late thirties, early forties, and going, oh, well. Oh, you mean there's a, there's a ceiling, there's a cap.
Steven Doyle [:Mm hmm. Yeah, yeah.
Brad Herda [:And, oh, by the way, there's still an expectation. You do all the same things you did to get there, right? And then you have the gen Z's that are relatively new, and many of them came out during COVID or put, you know, into the COVID era and working. And they're like, oh, well, everybody treated me like rock stars because I was here, I was here, I was here. Now we're into this four years later, five years later, just like I. Huh. Is this really all there is?
Steven Doyle [:Right?
Brad Herda [:So I put that back to leadership more than anybody else. As to, I don't care what generational leader you are, it's on leadership, ownership, board of directors to solve that problem.
Steven Doyle [:Thousand percent agree, 1000% agree. It's. It is that. But I would also say there is, there is some point that it is on an employee, too, to stand up and say, hey, let's go. But if you're beaten back by leadership, I could understand why.
Brad Herda [:Correct. I can say my last few years at my last employer, they measured morale. They didn't really measure engagement. They called morale and engagement. And that's the other part that I don't know. Are we measuring morale here? Are we measuring engagement? True engagement. Because most, most employee engagement surveys are really morale surveys. I was highly engaged with shitty morale.
Brad Herda [:If I were to answer the survey, it would show that I wasn't engaged, but they were measuring morale. I was heavily engaged in creating opportunities for those that would remain the product itself, the customers, the. The culture, all those things. But my morale was terrible.
Steven Doyle [:Right.
Brad Herda [:And that, to me, is the party article that is missing here from the context and understanding.
Steven Doyle [:Right. But let's look at what is included in this, because I, we both find this interesting is, you know, kind of more than definition of what is the emotional and emotional salary.
Brad Herda [:Right.
Steven Doyle [:What is that? What does that really mean? And looking at the article, we're talking about the non monetary aspects of a job, such as the culture, the career, and the work life balance that people have. So it's kind of like a measure on whether they feel rewarded beyond their base pay. Right. And that's kind of interesting because it's like a feel good type thing, like, not a concept I'm familiar with.
Brad Herda [:It goes back to the Maslow hierarchy of needs. Yeah. Do I feel like I'm a sense of, part of a community? Do I feel like I'm there because the job isn't there for, for many. It's not there for sense of security, a purpose, survival. It's. It's there to be part of a community.
Steven Doyle [:Okay, we'll go with that.
Brad Herda [:I mean, and that's where most employers missed the boat going forward, which created this big diversion of people going out to do their own thing to create record numbers of independent business owners and all of the folks that are out there on social media to be influencers that are making a good enough wage to have all the other things, to have a sense of community or purpose.
Steven Doyle [:What other aspects of this article did you find interesting?
Brad Herda [:I just don't get what some of these perks are. It doesn't make sense to me as to what, what we're doing and what we're trying to create for that total compensation package. And it's just me. I know it's me because I'm just the old fuddy duddy on the show. I know, boomer. And just not through. And it's just a matter of if you build an organization that people want to be part of, they're going to be engaged.
Steven Doyle [:Right.
Brad Herda [:And ultimately, I think that this article doesn't do a good enough job of going through to some of the root cause of things. We're talking about a symptom and not the root cause, right? And it's like, oh, I cut my finger. Okay, well, here's the band aid, and you're bleeding. Well, why'd I cut my finger? Cause I'm an idiot and I don't know how to use a razor blade properly or a box cutter or whatever, and that's how I hurt myself. So let's get you some training on the box cutter.
Steven Doyle [:Yep.
Brad Herda [:So let's get, let's get everybody on board as to what the purpose, mission, vision of the company is. And the unfortunate part is many of the folks that listen in our category, mission, vision, purpose, value, that's meaningless. That's a waste of time and energy. I can't stress enough how important that is to live those things every day, to attract and retain those that are part of that same culture that you want to create.
Steven Doyle [:Right?
Brad Herda [:And it is an amazing thing when you do it. And you will generate more profit, you will generate more revenue, you will generate more dollars, you will generate more happy customers, you will generate life changing opportunities. When you embrace the fact that you have a culture and you have values and need to live them every day and tell people what they are, it's okay.
Steven Doyle [:Now, one of the things it doesn't talk about, but some of the other work that you and I both do, when we're talking about recognition and alignment and stuff with the MVP, the mission, vision, values, purpose, things like that, and the work relationships that people have. People don't leave jobs or become disengaged with jobs, you know, because they're disengaged with the work that they do. It typically goes around their leadership. Right. Is why they're getting disengaged. And it also because they're not having conversations. Leadership is not having conversations with the employees. Like true one on one, belly button to belly button conversations with people.
Steven Doyle [:Right. So we, we see that all the time in the businesses we work with. When they tell us, oh, well, you know, they don't want to show up to work, you know, we just want them to show up, get on the machine, do the thing they need to do, then they're free to go home and do whatever. That's what we want them to do. But that leads to the disengagement, because you didn't get off your ass, walk over there, and have a conversation with these people that they, that is actually what they're looking for. That's the recognition people are looking for. They're not looking for necessarily the monetary recognition. That's nice.
Steven Doyle [:But if that only happens once or twice, what happens the rest of the 354 days? They're working. Good math.
Brad Herda [:One of my clients, second generation family business owner, they're building some new offices in their facility. They put a big expansion on, and they're moving a bunch of people upstairs to these new offices. And the question I asked was, are you putting, are you building silos up there? Or you got a group of people together supposed to work together, or what's going on? And unfortunately, because of the layout, there are two sides to this office. It's three on one and six on the other. And the three sales are going to be on one side, and then the other team is going to be on the other side of the room. I'm like, hey, you need to get your sales manager to talk to the salespeople to go and walk through that room on a regular basis, just to hear, see, ask questions, and not just send an email. And I told him as the leader, I said, you need to not just call people down to your office to talk to them. You need to go upstairs, go to their desk where they have the information, and they have the resources to get you the answers you're looking for at their fingertips versus calling them down to ask a question, to go back, to come back down.
Brad Herda [:He needs to go up and be present in that office area because otherwise, every time you show up in the office area is going to be like the Grim Reaper.
Steven Doyle [:Yep.
Brad Herda [:You're, you're only here because there's a problem.
Steven Doyle [:Correct.
Brad Herda [:You need to go up there. You need to go up there and manage actively by being visible and present so you can see what's happening, hear what's going on, hear the scuttlebutt about the packer game, the brewer game, the. Whatever, whatever's happening. The.
Steven Doyle [:How about them lions?
Brad Herda [:The local parade? Yeah, we'll. Dude, I've lived through a lot. I still, I'm still not drinking the kool aid on that.
Steven Doyle [:Come on. You're, you're like the lone fan in Wisconsin. That's. Hold out.
Brad Herda [:I know. I even got all my little people lines, guys. I know. But we'll see what Dan Campbell can do. Hopefully it was a very good lesson this year to learn that points matter.
Steven Doyle [:Points matter.
Brad Herda [:But, yeah, I think there's, there's that leadership aspect that is really important to create those relationships. And when we go back to Maslov, that sense of community, if people feel respected, honored and valued, they're not going to be disengaged.
Steven Doyle [:Right.
Brad Herda [:They might be pissed that they're sat. They think their salary is too low with all the noise and rhetoric that's going on out there as to what's happening. But we've talked about that before where wage stagnation is real.
Steven Doyle [:Yes. It's here.
Brad Herda [:You see it in the job numbers every month coming out from BLS. You know, it's, wages are only less than three tenths of a percent higher than. It's not like it used to be worth. Oh, it's 6% higher, 4% higher.
Steven Doyle [:Right. So the other thing that I find in this article is how they're asking people to, you know, have the conversations about the emotional salary and ask for it. And I'm like, how are you asking for an emotional salary when it's non monetary? What are you asking for? And it's extremely, I would say it's extremely vague. And it's like, oh, you know, the advice that they're giving you is, you know, practice having the conversation. Ask for more ptO. Well, PTo, it costs. Right. That there is a financial aspect with that that is monetary for asking for more ptO.
Steven Doyle [:All right. So, you know, a more flexible schedule I could understand, but yes, asking for.
Brad Herda [:Pto, asking for upskilling. Asking for those things. There is a monetary cost to that. Um, again, if you set up your organization well enough as we go with our, you know, our practices and what we do and you set up that, how do I make incremental change and opportunity at, if we're using direct labor? $0.25 an hour. And how do I get that? $0.25 an hour? Two times a year, three times a year. What are those things where we can, instead of trying to say, here's the big chunk of things we need you to do, how do we make the little chunks of things get really good at those, like, great job. Now do this and you get more. Do this and you get more.
Brad Herda [:And, and micro learn and micro teach and micro those opportunities for people to continue to have gain and build that out so they see the path. And it just drives me fucking crazy that organizations just aren't willing to go do that work in the space because it's hard. In the space that it's hard. Not hard. It's. It's complicated. Complicated. It's not hard.
Brad Herda [:There's no.
Steven Doyle [:It's hard. No, it hurts.
Brad Herda [:It is. It is complicated.
Steven Doyle [:You have to have a conversation. Nope, don't have to have a conversation.
Brad Herda [:You have to talk through it. And then you find somebody like us and we go through it, we set it up and it takes, it takes over and you've got it set up in a matter of months and you're ready to go and you are set for the next five to ten years. All you have to do is adjust some things here and there.
Steven Doyle [:Yep.
Brad Herda [:And it's amazing to me that people aren't willing to take that chance to add value to their organization, retain their employees, eliminate the bullshit between supervisors and employees, leaders and supervisors, etcetera, because expectations are clear. But I'm off my soapbox now.
Steven Doyle [:You know, that just, that just kind of leads us to the, to the end of the show. Being off your soapbox.
Brad Herda [:Then there we go, pulling me off.
Steven Doyle [:Number one guy.
Brad Herda [:Number one.
Steven Doyle [:Number one guy. I'm just, you know, just kind of go back to the points you were making. You know, there's an immense amount of value that companies and people can bring to those companies and the value to actually increase bottom line profitability. Bye. Having the conversations and making those tweaks and if we were courageous enough to actually do these things, be interesting to see where businesses would be at today when, when we're talking about morale, if we were to make these small incremental changes.
Brad Herda [:Yeah. One of the things I'm going to challenge our listeners to do is to go take their financials because Q two just kind of just ended. Never. Q two should be completed. Take their financials and go get that. Compare that against the industry benchmark for your industry. If you don't know how to get a benchmark, reach out to us. We can, we can get them for you.
Steven Doyle [:Absolutely.
Brad Herda [:We have that resource and ability, but understand where that is at because when they're talking about not engaged and active disengagement globally costing, it was some ridiculous freaking number. Where is it? $9 billion or some crap like that. It was a ridiculously big number. Come on. Where are you?
Steven Doyle [:Right at the top.
Brad Herda [:What's the number?
Steven Doyle [:Give me the 8.9 trillion annually.
Brad Herda [:8.9 trillion annually. So in order to get to 8.9 trillion annually, that means if your company's $4 million, you're blowing somewhere probably to a couple hundred thousand dollars a year.
Steven Doyle [:Yep. So just think about that. Think about the changes that you can make that have a profound impact on your bottom line. So that's what we challenge you to do today. On that note, Brad.
Brad Herda [:Yes. We should depart before your bugs of Clarkston technology come out and show some ad that we don't want to hear.
Steven Doyle [:Who knows? So. Well, thank you, my friend.
Brad Herda [:All right, sir. Have a wonderful weekend. Enjoy the beautiful summer weather and we will talk next time.
Steven Doyle [:All right, you do the same.
Brad Herda [:Thank you for listening to Blue collar B's, brought to you by vision, Ford business solutions and professional business coaching, Inc. If you'd like to learn more on today's topic, just reach out to Steve Doyle or myself, Brad Hurta. Please, like share rate and review this show as feedback is the only way we can get better. Let's keep blue collar businesses strong for generations to come. And.
